Minutes of the sv-sc sub-committee meeting, July 15, 2008

=================Attendance=============================

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--[----------a]   Arturo Salz          - Synopsys
vv[aa-aaaa-aa-]   Abigail Morehouse    - Mentor
--[----------a]   Bassam Tabbara       - Synopsys
--[----------a]   Brad Pierce          - Synopsys
--[------a-aaa]   Cliff Cummings       - Sunburst Design
--[a--a--aaaaa]   Dave Rich            - Mentor Graphics
vv[aaaaaaaa-aa]   Dmitry Korchemny     - Intel
--[------a-aa-]   Don Mills            -
--[------aaaaa]   Eduard Cerny         - Synopsys
tt[aaaaaaaaaaa]   Erik Seligman        - Intel (chair)
vv[-a-aaaaaaaa]   Francoise Martinolle - Cadence
vv[aaaaaaaaaaa]   Gordon Vreugdenhil   - Mentor Graphics
vv[aaaa-aaaaa-]   Jin Yang             - Intel
--[-----aaaaaa]   John Havlicek        - Freescale
--[----------a]   Jonathan Bromley     - Doulas
--[-----a--a-a]   Karen Pieper         - Accellera
vv[a-aaaaaaaaa]   Lisa Piper           - Cadence
vv[aaa-aaaaaaa]   Manisha Kulshrestha  - Mentor Graphics
vv[aaaaaaaaaaa]   Mark Hartoog         - Synopsys
--[-----aaaaaa]   Mehdi Mohtashemi     - Synopsys
vv[aaaaaaaa...]   Michael Burns        - Freescale
v-[aa---aaaaaa]   Mirek Forczek        - Aldec
vv[aaa--aaaaaa]   Neil Korpusik        - Sun Microsystems
--[---------a-]   Ray Ryan             - Mentor
--[---------aa]   Shalom Bresticker    - Intel
vv[aa-aaaaaaaa]   Steven Sharp         - Cadence
--[--------aaa]   Stu Sutherland       - Sutherland HDL
--[---------aa]   Surrendra Dudani     - Synopsys
vv[aaaaaaaaaaa]   Tom Thatcher         - Sun Microsystems (co-chair)
||
||---- Voting eligibility for current meeting
|------Voting eligibility for next meeting


====================Agenda==============================

Agenda:

   1.  Review the patent policy
   2.  Approve the minutes from the last meeting, available at
       http://www.eda.org/twiki/bin/view.cgi/P1800/SvScMeetingMinutes20080708
   3.  Review of Mantis items:
       * Proposals passed, friendly amendments under vote
    o 1728: Let Statements
    o 2415: ended/triggered fixes 
       * Now under vote
    o 2370: $past in Procedural Code: vote to close as duplicate of 1698
    o 1995: Concurrent Asserts in Procedural Loops vote to close as superseded by 2398
    o 2398: Concurrent Asserts in Procedural Code: New semantics
    o 1900: Checkers, part 1 
       * Under final revision/review, votes expected in coming week
    o 1900: Checkers, part 2
    o 2088: Covergroups in Checkers
    o 2089: Final in Checkers: vote to close as duplicate of 1900
    o 2414: Let VPI
    o 2434: 1549 update: self-determined types. In sync with 1601?
    o 2396: @edge clk 
       * Work in progress
    o 2182: VPI Diagrams for Checkers (Chuck Berking) 7/15 to write, 7/22 to pass
    o 2412: Clock inference in sequences : To be dropped for this PAR?
    o 2411: Allow triggered in sequences: Vote to close as duplicate of 2415 
   4. Opens? 


====================Summary==============================
1.  Currently under vote: 1728, 2415, 2370, 1995, 2398, 1900
2.  To be voted next week: 1900, 2088, 2089, 2414, 2434, 2396, 2411
3.  Drop 2412 for this PAR
4.  Work continues on 2182 "VPI Diagrams for checkers"
5.  E-mail voting period will be shortened to 5 days

====================Notes==============================

1 Patent policy
   Move:  Gord :  Accept patent policy 
   Second: Michael
   Unanimously approved.


2.  Approve Minutes
   Dmitry:  Change wording 2413 only dropped for this PAR

   Move: Michale :  Approve minutes from last meeting with amendment.
   Second: Dmitry
   Unanimously approved

3.  Procedure changes to meet deadline
    Erik   - What procedural changes can we do to meet the end of July
            deadline.  We could shorted e-mail votes to 3 days, or
        add more meetings for voice voting.
    Tom      - Against more meetings.
    Tom      - Suggest shortening e-mail votes to 5 days.  This allows
            votes to conclude before the regular committee meeting,
        allowing for voice votes on friendly amendments.
   Move:  Tom:  Shorten e-mail voting period to 5 days
   Second:  Gord
   Unanimously approved

4.  Review of Mantis Items
    * 1728 Let: Voting on friendly amendments
    * 2415 ended/triggered fixes: Voting on friendly amendments

    * 2370  Voting to close as duplicated by 1698
    * 1995  Voting to close as superceded by 2398
    * 2398  Under vote
      Neil   - Main issue is different ways of stating same thing
              reader could be confused by all these different variations
      
    * 1900  Part 1:  Under vote

    To vote this week
    * 1900     Checkers
    * 2088     Covergroups in checkers
    * 2089   Vote to close as duplicate
    * 2414   Let VPI
    * 2434:     1549 update: self-determined type
       Gord   - What was concern about consistency with 1601?
   Lisa   - 1601 and 1549 edited same paragraph.  A section
        was inserted in the wrong place
        1601 was about adding untyped as a type
   Gord   - Paragraph 16.8  from 1601.  This should be moved?
   Lisa   - Yes. 
   Gord   - Move to 16.8.1
   Gord   - Will make the change by end of day today.
   Erik   - We'll include this in vote.
    * 2396
   Jin   - Tom had a question about VPI change.
   Tom   - I didn't see any VPI changes necessary, but wanted to 
        double-check.

    Work in Progress
    * 2182 VPI Diagrams for Checkers
   Chuck   - Concerned about instance appearing in atomic
      - Tasks function calls have a different type from definition.
      - No way to distinguish checker instance from checker
        declaration
      - Need to distinguish checker as an object being defined and
        its instantiation
   Steven   - Agree
   Chuck   - Modules:  no separation of declaration and instantiation,
        you go directly to instance
   Chuck   - Definition of checker inherits its environment.
      - Instance doesn't inherit environment.
   Erik   - Checker definition inherits default clocking, but
        instantiation will not inherit this.
   Chuck   - This is why we need distinction between definition and 
        instantiation
      - Could use either new object type or a property.
   Chuck   - Could checker declaration be declared in procedural code?
   Gord   - No.
      - Instance can appear in procedural code, but not definition.
   Steven   - Pieces of checker execute procedurally, other pieces are
        concurrent.
   Chuck   - Checker would have to appear in an iteration of statements
   Chuck   - Should we define a checker "statement"?
   Abi   - In let proposal, we used seq formal decl, checkers will use
        property formal decl.  What is the difference.
   Erik   - There are a few subtle differences.

   Chuck   - Are ports to checker more like arguments?
   Gord   - Depends on actual:  Some act like task/function inputs,
        some act like module inputs.

   Erik   - do we need VPI present to pass 1900?
   Gord   - would be concerned about doing a quick change that's not
      - thought out.
   Chuck   - There are other areas where VPI is not complete as well.

    * 2412: Clock inferences in sequences
   Dmitry   - My item:  Drop item from this PAR, take it up later.

    * 2411: Allow triggered in sequence.  
      - It's a duplicate of 2415.  Schedule a vote to close as
        duplicate


4.  Opens?

    Gord   - Have uploaded change to 2434 to fix problem with 1601
            Had to do some wording change to fit the paragraph into new
        context.  Please take a look at it.

    Lisa   - What happened to 2110 "Checkers in procedural loops"
    Erik   - We'll need to vote to close as a duplicate of 1900

-- ErikSeligman - 16 Jul 2008