Minutes of the sv-sc sub-committee meeting, July 01, 2008

=================Attendance=============================

   021020220 Day
   147306817
   000000000 Month
   766655444
   000000000 Year
   888888888

--[--------a]   Arturo Salz          - Synopsys
vv[-aaaa-aa-]   Abigail Morehouse    - Mentor
--[--------a]   Bassam Tabbara       - Synopsys
--[--------a]   Brad Pierce          - Synopsys
--[----a-aaa]   Cliff Cummings       - Sunburst Design
-v[-a--aaaaa]   Dave Rich            - Mentor Graphics
vv[aaaaaa-aa]   Dmitry Korchemny     - Intel
--[----a-aa-]   Don Mills            -
--[----aaaaa]   Eduard Cerny         - Synopsys
tt[aaaaaaaaa]   Erik Seligman        - Intel (chair)
vv[-aaaaaaaa]   Francoise Martinolle - Cadence
vv[aaaaaaaaa]   Gordon Vreugdenhil   - Mentor Graphics
vv[aa-aaaaa-]   Jin Yang             - Intel
-v[---aaaaaa]   John Havlicek        - Freescale
--[--------a]   Jonathan Bromley     - Doulas
--[---a--a-a]   Karen Pieper         - Accellera
vv[aaaaaaaaa]   Lisa Piper           - Cadence
vv[a-aaaaaaa]   Manisha Kulshrestha  - Mentor Graphics
vv[aaaaaaaaa]   Mark Hartoog         - Synopsys
-v[---aaaaaa]   Mehdi Mohtashemi     - Synopsys
vv[aaaaaa...]   Michael Burns        - Freescale
-v[---aaaaaa]   Mirek Forczek        - Aldec
vv[a--aaaaaa]   Neil Korpusik        - Sun Microsystems
--[-------a-]   Ray Ryan             - Mentor
--[-------aa]   Shalom Bresticker    - Intel
vv[-aaaaaaaa]   Steven Sharp         - Cadence
--[------aaa]   Stu Sutherland       - Sutherland HDL
--[-------aa]   Surrendra Dudani     - Synopsys
vv[aaaaaaaaa]   Tom Thatcher         - Sun Microsystems (co-chair)
||
||---- Voting eligibility for current meeting
|------Voting eligibility for next meeting


====================Agenda==============================

Agenda:

   1.  Review the patent policy
   2.  Approve the minutes from the last meeting, available at
       http://www.eda.org/twiki/bin/view.cgi/P1800/SvScMeetingMinutes20080624
   3.  Overall status: we're running out of time, are we on schedule for these
       action items? Do we need to assign reviewers for current drafts of some?
       (Short scheduling discussion, defer tech discussion until all these are
   visited):
          * 1728: Let Statements: Vote in progress. Don't forget to vote!
          * 2398: Concurrent Asserts in Procedural Code: New semantics:
         (Erik/Gord). Assign reviewers / prepare for vote?
          * 2370: $past in Procedural Code (Jin). Agree it's done. Voice vote
         on closing as duplicate of 1698.
          * 2413: Inferred functions in let (Dmitry): Ready to vote? Simple
         enough that maybe we can voice vote.
          * 2415: Ended/triggered fixes: deprecate ended, use triggered
         everywhere. Ready to vote?
          * 1900: Checkers: (Dmitry/Erik/Mike/Tom): Any missing proposal
         sections? Action item for Dmitry to assemble full proposal.
          * 2182: VPI Diagrams for Checkers (Chuck Berking): TBA.
          * 1549 update: self-determined types (Gord) 7/1 to write, 7/8 to pass
          * New "@edge clk" proposal (Jin): 7/1 to write, 7/8 to pass. Is
         change to 'anyedge' needed?
          * 2414: New proposal for 'let' VPI: 7/1 to write, 7/8 to pass 
   4. Technical topics
          * Comments/discussion on recently posted proposals
                o Random simulation of free vars
                o Concurrent asserts in procedural code
                o Checker instantiation 
          * Opens? 

====================Summary==============================
1.  1728 has an E-mail ballot in progress.
2.  E-mail ballots will be started this week for:
    2413, 2415.
3.  Proposals have been uploaded for 1900, and 2088.
    We should have several other proposals completed this week.
====================Notes==============================

Only 8 people attending: Not enough for a quorum.

Discussion

1.  Action item status
    1728:  Vote in progress.  Friendly amendments.  Dmitry has implemented
       them.  Gord's comment about not being able to use let expression
       on left-hand side doesn't require further modification of proposal.
    2398:  Almost ready for vote.  Gord has not reviewed.  Erik needs help
       with Latex 


Lisa and Jin dialed in.  We now have quorum


    2370:  $past in Procedural code.  
       AI. Jin, Lisa,  to review whether the issues raised are covered
       by 1698.

    2413:  Inferred functions in let
       Will call for an e-mail vote.
   Gord   - Suggest:  "May appear in any boolean expression"
   Erik   - Add an example showing use within let
   AI   - Dmitry to change proposal, Erik will call for an e-mail vote.

   Manisha   -  But default disable only defined within assertions.

   AI:  Manisha will examine proposal more closely and send an e-mail
       regarding this.

    2415:  Ended/triggered fixes.  Deprecate ended.
   AI:  Erik will call for e-mail vote.

    1900:  Checkers
   Dmitry has sent out full proposal.
   Tom's part1 piece is separate.
   Used keyword rand for free variables
   AI:  Dmitry, Erik, Mike, & Tom to review

   Gord   - What are "static" assertion statements
   Erik   - "Static" assertions are the assertions outside procedural code
   Gord   - Term was used before definition
    2182:  VPI diagrams for checkers:  Time to get get Chuck Berking involved?

    Update for 1549:  Need a new Mantis item for this.
   Gord   - Will file a mantis item
   Gord   - One issue:  ability to forward-reference formals in 
        1549 text is only place where this is allowed.

   Gord   - In functions or tasks, it's illegal to reference any other
        formals, period.
        1549 allows both forward & backward references to other formals
        Want to restrict to backward references.
   Manisha   - Think this is a good idea.
   Gord   - Would prefer to keep this more restrictive.
   Erik   - If nobody objects, we could prevent all reference to other 
        formals to be consistent with tasks and functions.
   AI:   Gord will enter new Mantis item, and submit proposal.

    New "@edge clk" proposal
   Gord   - Shalom had feedback  Concerned about confusion between
        @sig  vs @edge sig
   Erik   - This shouldn't be a big source of confusion

   Jin   - Question about "edge" vs "anyedge"
   Gord   - Prefers not adding a keyword.
   Tom   - Agree
      

    2414:  New proposal for "let" VPI
   Abby is not here.  no status.

    2088:  New proposal uploaded
   Gord   - One concern is references to checker variables 
   Tom   - One current restriction is that checker variables not allowed
        in clocking event.
   

Technical topics

1.  Random simulation of free variables
    Mike   - Some of the examples of use of free variables in formal
            verification seem useless in simulation.
    Erik   - Intel wants to be able to check properties used in formal
            in simulation.
    Gord   - If not using a formal tool, should be writing assertions
            a different way.

2.  

Next Meeting:  July 8.

-- ErikSeligman - 07 Jul 2008