[sv-ac] Minutes of sv-ac meeting 2008-04-29

Hello Everyone,

Minutes are attached.  Let me know if there are any omissions or 
corrections.

Tom

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Minutes of IEEE P1800 SV-AC meeting #2007-51
Written by: Tom Thatcher

Date:  2008-04-29
Time:  16:00 UTC (9:00 PDT) 

Dial-in information:
--------------------

Toll number:   +1 916-356-2663
Toll free number (US): 888-875-9370 (U.S. toll-free)
Bridge: 4, Passcode: 1122047


Attendance Record:
------------------
        Legend:
                x = attended
                - = missed
                r = represented
                . = not yet a member
                v = valid voter (2 out of last 3 or 3/4 overall)
                n = not a valid voter
                t = chair eligible to vote only to make or break a tie

New PAR, attendance re-initialized on 2006-08-22:

 v[--xxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx-xx] Doron Bustan (Intel)
 v[xxxx-xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx--xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx-x] Eduard Cerny (Synopsys)     
 n[-------------------------------------x-xxx---------x-x-xxx-x---x] Surrendra Dudani (Synopsys)
 v[x-xxxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxx-xxxxxx-xxxxxxxxx-xx-xxxxx-xxx-xxx-------] Yaniv Fais (Freescale)
 v[xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx--xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] John Havlicek (Freescale)
 t[-xxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxrxxxxxxxxxxxxx-xxx] Dmitry Korchemny (Intel – Chair)
 v[-xxx--xx-x-xxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxx-xxx-x--xx--xxxxx----------xx-xxxx] Manisha Kulshrestha (Mentor Graphics)
 n[------------x-x-------------------------------------------------] Ah-Lam Lee (Qualcomm)
 n[---------------------------------------------xxxxx-------x-xx-x-] Jiang Long (Mentor Graphics)
 n[xx-x--------------------x------------x--xxx.....................] Joseph Lu (Altera)
 n[----------x-x--xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx..............................] Johan Martensson (Jasper)
 n[------------------------------------------x--x-xx--xx-xxxxxxx-x-] Hillel Miller (Freescale)
 v[xxxx-xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx-xxxx-xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxx] Lisa Piper (Cadence)
 v[xxx-xxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxx-x-x-xx-xxxxxxx-x-xxxxx-x..................] Erik Seligman (Intel)
 n[----------------------x-x----x--------xxxx-----xxxx-xx----------] Tej Singh (Mentor Graphics)
 v[xxxx-x-x-x-xxx-xxxxxx-x-xxxxxx--xxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Bassam Tabbara (Synopsys)
 v[xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxx...............] Tom Thatcher (Sun Microsystems – Co-Chair)
   |------------------------------------------------------ attendance on 2008-04-29
 |-------------------------------------------------------- voting eligibility on 2008-04-29 

Agenda:
-------
- Reminder of IEEE patent policy.
See: http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.ppt

- Mantis 1503:  Was reviewed by champions and sent back as we requested.
    We will vote on Bassam's latest changes.

- Meeting day change.  SV-AC will swap meeting times with SV-SC.

- Draft 5

- Other agenda items.




Notes:
------


* Mantis 1503:  Champions have returned it to us (as we requested)
	Bassam has made changes.
	Bassam discussed the changes.

	Vote to approve changes to 1503
	7yes,  0no , 0abstain


* Meeting Time:
    There is a proposal to swap the meeting time with the sv-sc:
    The sv-sc will meet on tuesdays in our meeting time slot.
    The sv-ac will meet on mondays in the sv-sc time slot.

    Vote to approve:
    7yes, 0no, 0 abstain

* Draft 5:
    Draft 5 of the standard has been released.  No sv-ac Mantis items
    were included in this draft.  Sv-ac Mantis items will appear in
    Draft 6 in 3-4 weeks.  However, there are editor notes that need to
    be resolved

    AI: Everyone to scan Draft 5 for editors notes in assertions chapter.

* Summary from SC meeting
    Assertions in procedural code.   Gord & steven don't like current semantics
	Mirek proposed using the procedural execution to trigger or schedule
	the assertion evaluation.


	John:  Does anyone have a list of interesting examples?  This could
	    be used to discuss benefits/drawbacks of any new proposal.
	AI:  Tom will create a list of examples

	Joseph: Will new semantics cause problems for formal semantics?
	Bassam:  Is this proposal beyond the scope of special committee.
	John:  Encouraged by new proposal, and its effects on various issues.


    Untyped arguments
	John:  There were some poor text choices in 1549.
	    Gord wants to enable large-scale designs, separate compilations
	    Do we really need substitution semantics?
	    What happens when expression passed to untyped argument?

	Bassam:  We do have type parameters in rest of language
	    If that's what's missing , we could define that for assertions too.
	    What's the scope of special committee.  Do they really have the
	    mandate to re-think everything?
	Erik:  People on the committee feel that there is a shaky foundation.
	    It's better to fix the foundation first than to try to build on
	    top of it.
	John:  Sees the purpose of the the SC as to get people talking.
	    Others may just not approve sv-ac proposals if they are not happy
	    with the semantics.
	Bassam:  Why did we end up with current semantics?  There must have
	    been some customer use case to motivate this implementation.


Meeting adjourned.

Next meeting will be MONDAY, May 5.  Dmitry will cancel if there are no
agenda items.