RE: [vhdl-200x] Language Transitions: SystemVerilog in the Ascendancy?

Dennis,

owner-vhdl-200x@eda.org wrote on 04/27/2011 01:47:36 AM:

> From:
>
> "Brophy, Dennis" <dennis_brophy@mentor.com>
>
> To:
>
> <vhdl-200x@eda.org>
>
> Date:
>
> 04/27/2011 01:49 AM
>
> Subject:
>
> RE: [vhdl-200x] Language Transitions: SystemVerilog in the Ascendancy?
>
> Sent by:
>
> owner-vhdl-200x@eda.org
>
> Joe,
>
> Your link points to tag in a blog entry I wrote. From reading the
> emails the past few days on the reflector, I estimate this reference
> will be seen to be commentary and dismissed. A pdf of Wally's keynote
> can be found at
> http://www.mentor.com/company/industry_keynotes/upload/DVCon-2011.pdf.

It's always a good idea to go to the original source, rather than to
depend on commentary and summarization by others.

 
> Harry Foster at Mentor Graphics and long time verification master, has
> worked with an independent organization to conduct research that mirrors
> research that others in the past decade have done (and are no longer
> doing). Harry has 7 blogs on the information gathered in the surveys
> (so far) and his prologue blog outlines some of the details of them.
> You can find his prologue at
> http://blogs.mentor.com/verificationhorizons/blog/2011/03/30/prologue-th
> e-2010-wilson-research-group-functional-verification-study/. It tells
> you a lot about how the survey was done.
>
> All,
>
> I offer this for completeness of information, not to sway anyone's
> position.
>
> I also offer this in keeping with the content of the 1076 PAR
> (https://development.standards.ieee.org/get-file/P1076.pdf?t=66787800003
> ) where it is clear in clause 5.6 it states the EDA industry is one of
> the 1076 stakeholders such that the committee might want to hear from it
> and some of its constituents regarding market relevance of possible
> additions and changes to the language.
>
> I also hope that the open mind the 1076 team has to changes and
> additions to the language will remain open as other working group
> participants share information they have. While I have read several
> posts that surveys are out of bounds for working groups, this is not
> totally true. You will find in the antitrust information at
> http://standards.ieee.org/develop/policies/antitrust.pdf that the
> committee cannot do surveys without contacting IEEE-SA first.
> Individuals have every right and privilege to make such presentations.
> You will find the following text as your guide:
>
> "Customer Surveys and Statistical Programs. Individual participants
>
> may make presentations about broad market potential or market
> requirements for informational purposes. No IEEE-SA standards
> group may engage in, direct, or encourage its members to engage
> in surveys of customers or gathering of statistical data about
> market requirements, markets, or customers without appropriate
> review by IEEE-SA legal counsel (which is arranged through the
> IEEE-SA Staff Liaison for your working group or technical
> committee)."

I also read the IEEE Antitrust policy paper, and my reading of it is that
although WG instigation of market surveys is forbidden, discussion of
existing survey results is allowed. What *is* forbidden is discussion of
"individual companies? market shares or sales territories", but the survey
in question covers technologies, not companies.

Elsewhere in that same policy paper, IEEE states that "The IEEE-SA
believes that, as a general matter, having more information ? including
[relative] cost information ? is better than having less."

But that's just my opinion - it's the Chair's decision.

Joe Gwinn

> Cheers,
>
> Dennis
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-vhdl-200x@eda.org [mailto:owner-vhdl-200x@eda.org] On Behalf
> Of Joseph M Gwinn
> Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 4:34 PM
> To: vhdl-200x@eda.org
> Subject: [vhdl-200x] Language Transitions: SystemVerilog in the
> Ascendancy?
>
> Well, all this talk of forbidden topics made me curious, so I dug up the

> actual talk by the Chairman & CEO of Mentor Graphics. While we may or
may
> not be allowed to discuss the contents on the reflector, it is certainly

> OK for people to read it, to get the full context, so here's the link.
>
> <http://blogs.mentor.com/verificationhorizons/blog/tag/wally-rhines/>
>
> Near the top find the button to get the full keynote speech.
>
>
> I have no dog in this fight. Nor do I have an opinion on the
> correctness of Mr. Rhines' talk.
>
>
> Joe Gwinn

-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.