[sv-champions] Minutes for November 28th meeting

From: Neil Korpusik <Neil.Korpusik_at_.....>
Date: Sat Dec 01 2007 - 20:19:23 PST
FYI,

I am copying everyone separately since the champions alias
seems to have not been working recently.

Neil


-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.


Champions meeting minutes of November 28, 2007
8am - 10am PST

Attendees:
----------
* Stu
- Surrendra
* Brad
* Francoise
* Shalom
* John
* Dave
* Neil 

1. List of Mantis items left over from the Champions meeting of November 8th. 

   These were on the agenda but we didn't have time to review them in the 
   meeting. The last set of 3 had issues flagged by at least one Champion in 
   Nov 8th meeting. I did not record that set of issues (we were almost out 
   of time). 

1641 SV-AC need a way to specify severity for printing general error messages

   Stu - this seems to refer to another change already made. 
       - __LINE__ and __FILE__  are defined in Mantis 1588

      Move: Stu - approve the proposal for Mantis 1641
    Second: Shalom
      Passed unanimously


1570 SV-CC Clarify legality of 'integer' and 'time' as DPI parameter types

     John   - section number issue?
     Shalom - not a reason to not approve it
     Stu    - mentions time as a 4-state packed array
     Shalom - looked at that, you need to look at the context
	      Talking about interface versus C.

      Move: Stu - approve the proposal for Mantis 1570
    Second: Dave 
      Passed unanimously 

2056 SV-BC 12.7.1: Description of for-loop step assignment is not precise

      Move: Dave - approve the proposal for Mantis item 2056
    Second: Francoise
      Passed unanimously

1939 SV-BC Hexadecimal escapes in strings (Table 5-1)

      Move: Dave - approve the proposal for Mantis item 1939
    Second: Shalom
      Passed unanimously

1278 SV-BC "initial" and "always" "constructs" versus procedural

    On October 29, 2007 the SV-BC approved resolving this item as it
    was already addressed. The approval was not unanimous.

    Cliff Cummings opposed as he prefers different terminology.
    Francoise Martinolle abstained as she prefers different terminology.

      Shalom - there was some additional discussion in svbc, not in mantis

      Move: Francoise - to approve the resolution for Mantis item 1278
			"no change required"
    Second: Stu
       Passed unanimously

2. List of Mantis items that failed a Champions email vote:


1928 SV-EC clarification of coverpoint value resolution (18.5.6)
     Failed in the Champions 12-day email vote (ending Sept 17th).
     Was re-approved "as-is" by the svec by email vote.

     The following are from the svec Oct 1st, 2007  meeting minutes
	 - there are some valid concern about the language in the proposal
	   Some of that is due to the particular section of the LRM.
	 - Mostly about how things are expressed, as opposed to content
	 - terminology for enumeration value, for example
	 - at one level, does agree it would be good to update it.
	 - This is a fairly narrow technical issue
	 - Want to get the change in, there is an important technical point

     John - the terminology is not consistent and clear in the proposal
	  - re-approving the proposal is the judgment of the committee and 
	    he is ok with that
   Shalom - 1429 is on the sv-bc list, but most likely won't make the cut
	  - 1429 is one of several on enums 
	  - 1928 is consistent with the current language in LRM.

      Move: Dave - approve the proposal for Mantis item 1928
    Second: Stu
      Passed unanimously

AI/Neil - open a new mantis item to capture this feedback from the champions
	  (see 2223)
     

1871 SV-EC clarification needed for illegal/ignore transition bins
     Failed in the Champions 12-day email vote (ending Sept 17th).
     The proposal was updated and approved by email vote.

     Dave - Dave Scott changed the proposal
     John - agrees that the change does improve the language.
	    his concern was addressed

      Move: Dave - approve the proposal for Mantis item 1871
    Second: Shalom
      Passed unanimously

1737 SV-AC Incomplete fix from 1381

     Failed in the Champions 12-day email vote (ending Sept 17th). 
     The proposal was updated and approved by voice vote.   

      John - had a dependency on 1768 and coloring issues (from email vote)
     
      Move: John - approve the proposal for Mantis item 1737
    Second: Brad
      Passed unanimously


1731 SV-AC Sampled value functions with arbitrary clocks

     Passed with friendly amendments in the Champions 12-day email 
     vote (ending Sept 17th). 
     The proposal was updated and approved by email vote.   

      Move: Dave - approve the proposal for Mantis item 1731
    Second: John
      Passed unanimously


1723 SV-EC Size method for associative arrays

     Failed to pass in the Champions August 29, 2007 email vote with 2 no votes
     The proposal was updated and approved by voice vote.  (2 no votes)

      Move: Dave - approve the proposal for Mantis item 1723
    Second: Brad
      Passed unanimously


1609 SV-EC import statements should not be allowed in class scopes

     Failed to pass in the Champions August 29, 2007 email vote with 2 no votes
     The proposal was updated and approved by voice vote (Sept 6th).

     Stu - why use the word "directly"?
     FM  - it means directly in the class scope. 
    Dave - the word "directly" is not really needed.
    Brad - a function scope
	   can there be an import inside a function within a class?
	   "directly" usually means at current scope, and not lower ones.
    Dave - thinks it also means nested scopes
	 - the same inheritance rules exist for methods and classes. 
     FM  - with import in class, issue with derived class using dif symbols.
    Dave - now thinks the word 'directly' is correct.
     FM  - thinks it would be safer to completely disallow (eg in methods)

AI/Neil  - send feedback to committee that it might be best to extend to 
	   also include class methods.

      Move: Francoise - approve the proposal for Mantis item 1609
    Second: Dave
    Oppose: Stu - thinks we need to know the intent of the word "directly" 
		  before sending this to the Working Group
      Passed with one no vote


1601 SV-AC new keyword for untyped formal arguments

     Failed to pass in the Champions August 29, 2007 email vote with 1 no vote
     We still need to address this no vote.  

     In the meantime, some friendly amendments were made and approved 
     by the technical committee (passed by email vote).

     Stu    - friendly amendments
	       - untyped keyword needs to be added to annex b.
	       - also begin_keyword directive section also if needed. 
                 The Editor is to take care of both of these
     Shalom - 1846 - begin_keywords - hasn't yet passed the svbc
	    - should have committees just mention what goes in annex b. 
	      then the Editor will update it when 1846 passes.
       John - wouldn't cause other things in ac to be held up if not approved. 
	      a user convenience
       Dave - mailbox - has no formal type associated with it. 
		      - would like to solve this if had time.
		        could use the same keyword for mailboxes
            - 'untyped' is a type itself. 
      Stu   - ok allowing time for svec to consider it for use with mailbox.
      FM    - there is a dependency on 1549
     John   - it should be made clear that the action item is for svec if the 
              proposal is rejected.
     Shalom - ec needs to complete early enough to give feedback to ac.
     John   - the deadline can be after the new year. 
            - if ec wants a different mechanism - ac would need more time.

      Move: Shalom - approve the proposal for Mantis item 1601
    Second: John
    Oppose: FM   - wants to see if it can be applied in other places
	    Dave - schedule doesn't allow time for complete review
		 - appears to be significant enough to require review
            Stu  - wants sv-ec to have time to review it
	    Neil - it should go to the sv-ec
     For: John, Brad, Shalom
     Motion failed - the sv-ec will be given time to review this proposal 


1580 SV-EC Access to interface objects via virtual interface

     Failed to pass in the Champions August 29, 2007 email vote with 2 no votes
     The proposal was updated and approved by voice vote (Oct 29th).

    Shalom - now satisfied with new language

      Move: Dave - approve the proposal for Mantis item 1580
    Second: Shalom
     Passed unanimously


1336 SV-EC Rules for allowed statements in a function

     Failed to pass in the Champions August 29, 2007 email vote with 1 no vote
     The proposal was updated and approved by voice vote (Oct 15th - 1 no vote)

     Note: I just noticed that section 13.4 also needs to be updated in order
	   to be made consistent with the changes in this proposal. We could
	   create a new mantis item for that. 

     Neil - 13.4.5 is in contradiction with 13.4 items c) and d)
     Stu  - can we just strike out c and d?
     Dave - the whole section may need to be changed
	  - yes, items c) and d) can be removed
   Shalom - the second part of d) must remain in the text
	  - 13.4.3 automatic function versus automatic task
	  - should these changes only apply to static functions? (eg not the 
	    automatics)
   Shalom - the proposal has 13.4.5 change - 2nd paragraph
	    "in the context in which a side-effect is allowed..."
	     Is this defined?
   Shalom - doesn't think we can approve it "as-is", it creates a contradiction.
   Stu    - can't do the fix with a new Mantis item.
   Shalom - for 1340 we send it back - in order to force bc to work on it. 
   Dave   - this one is for different text than that touched by the proposal

      Move: Stu - send 1336 back to the sv-ec, address the conflict in 13.4
		  and to address restriction for NBA that tasks and functions 
		  have. 13.3.2 
    Second: Shalom
    Oppose:  Dave - we need to make progress. prefers to open a new Mantis
	     FM   - agrees to opening a new Mantis item.
      Passed with 2 opposed - send it back to the sv-ec


3. List of Mantis items that have not yet been reviewed by the Champions.

2188 SV-AC Typo in 38.4.1 Placing assertion system callbacks

      Move: Stu - approve the proposal for Mantis item 2188
    Second: Francoise
      Passed unanimously


2175 SV-AC D4 implementation feedback

      Move: Stu - approve the proposal for Mantis item 2175
    Second: John 
      Passed unanimously


2171 SV-AC Wrong usage of "property expression" in Reactive region description.

     John - 2 abstains - were due to 2 people not voting in email vote
     Stu  - any backward compatibility issues?
     John - an action block is with a concurrent assertion construct

      Move: Brad - approve the proposal for Mantis item 2171
    Second: John
      Passed unanimously


2142 SV-EC Unclear if type parameters may be used to specify class base class

    Brad - "real" should be in bold --- note it
    FM   - two places require that change.

AI/Neil - add a note to the Editor for this

      Move: Dave - approve the proposal for Mantis item 2142
    Second: Francoise
      Passed unanimously


2141 SV-EC Unclear if type parameters can be used with scope resolution operator

      Move: Dave - approve the proposal for Mantis item 2141
    Second: Francoise 
      Passed unanimously


2087 SV-EC Semantic intent of qualified BNF terminals must be clarified

   Brad  - why adding the qualified_term?
  Shalom - it is used in the following text of the proposal.
   Stu   - section 1.6 might be a better place to locate it. 
	 - friendly amendment to duplicate it in 1.6 - put it in both places
   Brad  - why not say define semantics of qualified_term?
   Dave  - don't do here.
   FM    - typo at the end - last array_identifier is spelled wrong
   Stu   - strike word such and correct spelling
   Shlom - ok with word such.


      Move: Dave - approve the proposal for Mantis item 2087 with 
		   two friendly amendments 
		      1. duplicate this text in 1.6
		      2. fix typo at the end - spelling of array_identifier
    Second: Stu
      Passed unanimously

2036 SV-BC Unique case and overlapping expressions in a case item

     Dave - wasn't this discussed this week in svbc?
     Stu  - not this one.

      Move: Dave - approve the proposal for Mantis item 2036
    Second: Shalom
   Abstain: Stu - the wrong thing to do. Was against it in the committee 
		  (couldn't vote there since he missed that meeting). 
      Passed with one abstain


2025 SV-EC 5.9: The difference between string literals and array literals

      Move: Shalom - approve the proposal for Mantis item 2025
    Second: Dave
      Passed unanimously


2021 SV-EC Relax excessively severe restriction on what can connect to a 
	   clocking inout

      Move: Dave - approve the proposal for Mantis item 2021
    Second: Brad
      Passed unanimously

2007 SV-EC 7.9.4: rules about int type index for associative arrays

      Move: Dave - approve the proposal for Mantis item 2007
    Second: Stu
      Passed unanimously


1897 SV-EC clarify "union of all significant bins" and "overlapping bins" in 
	   coverage computation

    Shalom - table number has changed in draft 4. (18-28 is now 18-1)

AI/Neil - note to the the editor for table numbering.

      Move: Dave - approve the proposal for Mantis item 1897
    Second: Brad
      Passed unanimously


1851 SV-EC all params declared inside class body are local

      Move: Shalom - approve the proposal for Mantis item 1851
    Second: Dave
      Passed unanimously


1800 SV-AC Example with throughout in Clause 16.8.8 on pp332 of P1800-2008 
	   Draft 4 is incorrect

      Stu - only adding parens
	  - when it is tough to see a change - add a note

      Move: Stu - approve the proposal for Mantis item 1800
    Second: John
      Passed unanimously

1679 SV-EC 3.6 string casting statement unclear

      Move: Dave - approve the proposal for Mantis item 1679
    Second: Brad
      Passed unanimously


1608 SV-EC equality, inequality and conditional operator rules for class handles

      Move: Dave - approve the proposal for Mantis item 1608
    Second: Stu
      Passed unanimously


1594 SV-EC conditional operator for class handles incorrect

      Move: Dave - approve the proposal for Mantis item 1594
    Second: Stu 
      Passed unanimously


1560 SV-EC Queue delete() method for entire array

   Dave - Why was word prototype changed to syntax?
   Neil - There was agreement that this was the right term in the committee
   Stu  - syntax is also the not correct word. 

      Move: Dave - approve the proposal for Mantis item 1560 
    Second:  Stu
      Passed unanimously


1500 SV-EC Rules for allowed statements in a function

      Move: Dave - approve the proposal for Mantis item 1500
    Second: Brad
      Passed unanimously


1494 SV-AC Infering enabling condition for coverage statement

    John - resolution is to close as a duplicate.

AI/Neil - the proposal should be deleted or marked such that not to be done.

      Move: Brad - approve the resolution of duplicate for Mantis item 1494
    Second: John
      Passed unanimously


1384 SV-EC bit stream cast and pack/unpack for protected./local members

     Brad - wants more time to review it. 
	  - what about word clause
     Stu  - when refer to entire clause use word Clause (capitalized)
     Brad - last sentence should be shall?
     Stu  - yes, (Shalom agrees)

     Issues with the word "shall" - probably ok, the Editor can deal with it. 

      Move: Brad - approve the proposal for Mantis item 1384
    Second: Dave
      Passed unanimously


1360 SV-BC 11.2: clarify that separate always_comb's to different variable 
	   selects are allowed

      Move: Brad - approve the proposal for Mantis item 1360
    Second: Shalom
      Passed unanimously

1212 SV-BC Reversed cross-references to IEEE Std 1364

      Move: Brad - approve the proposal for Mantis item 1212
    Second: Stu
      Passed unanimously


1199 SV-AC Standard reporting mechanism for functional errors/warnings, etc.

      Move: Dave - approve the resolution of duplicate for Mantis item 1199
    Second: Brad
      Passed unanimously


1197 SV-BC First class part selection operator

      Move: Brad - approve the proposal for Mantis item 1197
    Second: Shalom
      Passed unanimously


1041 V-1364 12.5: case item expression ambiguity

      Move: Shalom - approve the proposal for Mantis item 1041
    Second: Stu 
      Passed unanimously

 339 SV-EC typos in queue method descriptions

      Move: Shalom - approve the proposal for Mantis item 339
    Second: Stu
      Passed unanimously

4. Next Meetings: 
   -------------
   - Champions - it was agreed to hold the following two Champions meetings
	Dec 20th
	Jan 10th
   - P1800 Working Group will meet on 
	Dec 13th 
	Jan 31st
Received on Sat Dec 1 20:19:56 2007

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.8 : Sat Dec 01 2007 - 20:19:59 PST