[P1800] RE: IEEE 754-1985 no longer a standard?

The 2009 IEEE Standards Style Manual says in 10.4.1:

"d) Dated and/or undated references are allowed in standards. Using undated references helps eliminate the burden of continuous updates to align standards as they are revised, while ensuring that the most up-to-date information on technologies and statutes is referenced (when appropriate). Dated references can be used in certain circumstances, such as when a high degree of specificity is needed. The responsibility of determining whether a reference should be dated or undated lies with the working and balloting groups, who shall determine what is best during implementation of a given standard, and therefore what is best for the standard's users."

and

"i) Reference to withdrawn standards may be made; however, Sponsors are cautioned that withdrawn standards may contain obsolete or erroneous information and may be difficult to retrieve."

10.4.2 says,

"The following guidelines shall be followed when structuring the normative references clause:

a) The normative reference clause is introduced with the following paragraph:
The following referenced documents are indispensable for the application of this document (i.e., they must be understood and used, so each referenced document is cited in text and its relationship to this document is explained). For dated references, only the edition cited applies. For undated references, the latest edition of the referenced document (including any amendments or corrigenda) applies.

b) The IEEE Standards project editor will list the information (i.e., title) for the most current edition of the undated material cited. In some cases, the most current edition is not the one required. It is also important for the sponsor to remember that the dated edition listed in the balloted document will be the one that appears in the published document. Therefore, it is the responsibility of the sponsor to not only determine which edition of a document is applicable in each case, but also to ensure that the balloted document lists the correct edition."

While it may not be desirable, I don't see that continuing to refer to 754-1985 is meaningless. (See 10.4.1(i))It also does not seem logical that if standard A was revised, that any other standard that refers to the previous version immediately becomes invalid on that same day. It would not be practical to manage standards in that way.

Shalom 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ieee1800@server.eda.org 
> [mailto:owner-ieee1800@server.eda.org] On Behalf Of Brad Pierce
> Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 5:33 PM
> To: IEEE P1800 Working Group
> Subject: [P1800] IEEE 754-1985 no longer a standard?
> 
> Clause of 2 of the P1800-2009 draft refers to IEEE Std 
> 754-1985, but according to Vincent Lefèvre below, "In the 
> case of language standards linked to the IEEE 754-1985 
> standard: indeed they do not magically inherit the 754-2008 
> standard.  Equally, any sections that previously depended on 
> the IEEE 754-1985 standard are now 'meaningless' as there is 
> no such standard anymore."
> 
> The P1800 should consider updating Clause 2 to refer to IEEE 
> Std 754-2008.
> 
> -- Brad
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stds-754@ieee.org [mailto:stds-754@ieee.org] On Behalf 
> Of Mike Cowlishaw
> Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 7:17 AM
> To: Vincent Lefevre
> Cc: STDS-754@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: Re: [STDS-754] Halfway cases for binary-to-decimal 
> conversion in IEEE 754-1985
> 
> > No, this matters, because e.g. the language standards may remain 
> > linked to IEEE 754-1985. For instance, this is the case of 
> the ISO C99 
> > standard (with its annex F), which has not been revised 
> yet. If IEEE 
> > 754-2008 has stricter requirements than the 1985 version, a 
> conforming 
> > C99 implementation will not magically become non-conforming just 
> > because IEEE 754-2008 has obsoleted the 1985 version.
> 
> As I understand it: if a part of standard (A) is dependent on 
> standard (B) then if standard (B) is no longer a standard for 
> any reason (due to being revoked or superseded, for example) 
> then that part of standard (A) is also no longer standard.
> 
> This has always been the case, and is one reason why 
> standards minimize their dependence on other standards as 
> much as makes sense.  It is also one reason why the committee 
> revising IEEE 754 took so long, and debated at great length, 
> any additions and changes.
> 
> In the case of language standards linked to the IEEE 754-1985 
> standard:
> indeed they do not magically inherit the 754-2008 standard.  
> Equally, any sections that previously depended on the IEEE 
> 754-1985 standard are now 'meaningless' as there is no such 
> standard anymore.  I note that the C# and CLI standards from 
> ECMA have already started the process of updating their 
> standards to refer to IEEE 754-2008, and imagine other 
> language standards will do the same in due course.
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