[P1800] Summary of Champions 5-day email vote

From: Neil Korpusik <Neil.Korpusik_at_.....>
Date: Wed Aug 29 2007 - 18:36:05 PDT
SystemVerilog Working Group members,

As a result of the 3 meetings of the Champions, there were several mantis
items that were sent back to the technical committees. The sv-ac and sv-ec
quickly responded to the Champions feedback by updating the set of mantis
items in their committee that were flagged by the Champions. There were a
small number that they didn't have time to react to.

The Champions had agreed to conduct a 5-day email vote to consider this set
of updated mantis items. That email vote concluded at 5pm PST. Attached is
a summary of these results.

The technical committees would appreciate it if the Working Group would
consider allowing those mantis items that have now been approved by the
Champions to be added to draft 4 of the LRM.

Neil


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Neil Korpusik                                     Tel: 408-276-6385
Frontend Technologies (FTAP)                      Fax: 408-276-5092
Sun Microsystems                       email: neil.korpusik@sun.com
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Results of the 5-day Champions email vote:
All of those which had either a no vote or an abstain vote are marked 
with an "-->".

SV-AC Mantis items passed by the Champions after making friendly ammendments:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.     1550  passed [Stu]  friendly ammendments suggested 
2.     1567  passed [Dave] the proposal should be in a pdf file
3.     1722  passed [Brad] friendly ammendments suggested 

SV-AC Mantis items sent back to the committees for updates:
-----------------------------------------------------------
4.     1591  passed [Dave] the proposal should be in a pdf file 
5. --> 1601  failed  Dave
6.     1704  passed 
7. --> 1729  failed  Shalom 
8.     1768  passed [Brad] friendly ammendments suggested

SV-AC Mantis items rejected by the Champions:
---------------------------------------------
9. --> 1466  abstain - Stu



SV-EC Mantis items passed by the Champions after making friendly ammendments:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
10.    1789  passed

SV-EC Mantis items sent back to the sv-ec for updates and further review:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
11.    1787  passed [Brad] friendly ammendments suggested
12.    1777  passed [Brad] friendly ammendments suggested
13.    1736  passed 
14. -->1723  failed  Brad, Shalom
15.    1680  passed [Shalom] Suggested a new mantis to be opened.
16.    1655  passed [Shalom] friendly ammendments suggested
17. -->1615  failed  Shalom
18.    1612  passed  
19. -->1609  failed  Brad
20.    1605  passed  
21. -->1580  failed  Shalom
22. -->1556  failed  Brad, Shalom, Stu
23.    1545  passed 
24.    1480  passed 
25.    1427  passed  
26.    1371  passed [Shalom] friendly ammendments suggested
27. -->1336  failed  Shalom
28.     888  passed [Brad] friendly ammendments suggested
29.     594  passed



<--------------< Details of the vote are summarized below >---------------->

This email vote ended at 5pm PST, Aug 29 

   1. Brad      - voted - feedback incorporated below
   2. Dave      - voted - feedback incorporated below
   3. Shalom    - voted - feedback incorporated below
   4. Stu       - voted - feedback incorporated below
   5. Francoise -  ---
   6. Surrendra -  ---
   7. Neil      -  N/A

SV-AC Mantis items passed by the Champions after making friendly ammendments:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.     1550  Friendly ammendments added, approved by svac
             [Stu] friendly ammendments suggested 
	     1) All references to "preponed" should be "Preponed".  This is to 
                make the capitalization of event region names consistent with 
                a change made by the SV-EC in another Mantis item, already 
                incorporated in draft 3a.
	     2) The changes to clause 16.8.3 add in two places new text 
                describing that $sampled returns default uninitialized values 
                under certain conditions.
		I recommend that these two new descriptions end with a cross 
		reference: "(see 6.7, Table 6-1)". [clause and table numbers 
		per draft 3a] 

2.     1567  Friendly ammendments added, approved by svac
	     [Dave] the proposal should be in a pdf file
3.     1722  Friendly ammendments added, approved by svac
             [Brad] friendly ammendments suggested 
             9) The editor, when implementing 1722, change occurences of "bind
                instantiation" to "bind_instantiation" and occurrences of 
                "interface instantiation" to "interface_instantiation".

SV-AC Mantis items sent back to the committees for updates:
-----------------------------------------------------------
4.     1591  Revised, passed by email ballot  7y/0n/2a
	     [Dave] the proposal should be in a pdf file 
5. No  1601  Revised, passed by email ballot  8y/0n/1a
	     no - Dave
	     [Dave]
	     I still believe this enhancement needs a thorough review across all
	     committees. It adds additional complexity for what may be an 
	     interim solution. There still may be time for this in the 2008 LRM,
	     but if not, the penalty for not approving this seems to be one of 
	     convenience.
	     [Shalom] friendly ammendments suggested
	     1) From: "This semantics is described in Subclause 16.7." 
	        To:   "This semantics is described in 16.7."
             2) In "The formal arguments w and y of foo2 are untyped, while the 
	        formal argument x has data type bit," the word "bit" should be 
		bold.
6.     1704  Revised, passed by email ballot  8y/0n/1a
7. No  1729  Revised, passed by email ballot  7y/0n/2a
             no - Shalom 
	     [Shalom] 
             1) The following text is unclear as to what behavior is only
		optional/recommended and what is required:

	        "The immediate cover statement is used to detect the occurrence 
		of specific signal values in the procedural code. The tools can 
		collect such information in a database and then report the 
		results at the end of simulation. The reporting should include 
		the number of times the cover statement expression was true and 
		in that sense it is equivalent to recording the success of an 
		assert statement on the same expression.  cover statements can 
		also be used as search targets in formal tools.

	        The results of a cover statement shall contain the following:
		  - Number of times succeeded
		  - Number of times failed"
	     2) Most of the text says "can", "should", but the last sentence 
		says "shall".
             3) Also, the following is confusing to the reader as it refers to 
		the BNF without saying so: "In addition, statement_or_null is 
		executed every time expression is true." And if so, 
		'expression' should be in a different font than the rest of 
		the sentence as well as 'statement_or_null'.

8.     1768  Reviewed by LP, DB, JH., no change needed
             [Brad] friendly ammendments suggested
             8)  Change 'Type' of 1768 in svdb from Clarification to Enhancement
             10) The editor, when implementing 1768, add + and * to 
                 cycle_delay_const_range_expression instead of adding ##[+] 
                 and ##[*] to cycle_delay_range.

SV-AC Mantis items rejected by the Champions:
---------------------------------------------
9. Ab  1466  Revised, passed by e-mail ballot 6y/0n/3a
	     abstain - Stu
	     [Stu]
	     1) I abstain on this item because I feel the change is 
		unnecessary. It does not add new functionality, and only makes 
		assertion sequences even more cryptic.  
	     2) If I had had voting privileges on the AC committee, I would 
		have voted against this enhancement. 
	     3) I would vote against it if I had voting privileges at the P1800 
	        working group level.  
	     4) I do not feel it is appropriate to vote NO on this at the 
		champions level, because the champions charter is different.

SV-EC Mantis items passed by the Champions after making friendly ammendments:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
10.    1789  Friendly ammendments were added

SV-EC Mantis items sent back to the sv-ec for updates and further review:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
11.    1787  changes by the Champions were made
             [Brad] friendly ammendments suggested
             11)  The editor, when implementing 1787, change both occurrences 
                  of "range_value" to "value_range".
12.    1777  changes by the Champions were made
             [Brad] friendly ammendments suggested
	     12) The editor, when implementing 1777, change both occurrences of
		 "An arbitrary number" to "Any number" and delete 'arbitrary' 
                 from "any number of arbitrary".
             [Shalom] friendly ammendments suggested
	     In the next to last paragraph, in "Transition bin b5", the word
	     "Transition" should be added and not struck out.
13.    1736  changes by the Champions were made
14. No 1723  changes by the Champions were made
	     no - Brad, Shalom
             [Brad] 
             6) Needs an example of the new method.
             7) Not clear that that the indexing expressions are still legal 
                after the change from [*] to [int].
             [Shalom]
	     Not clear that the change from [*] to [int] is correct, due to 
	     Brad's question, "According to [7.9.4], all of these unsigned 
	     integral values are sign extended to 32 bits, becoming negative 
	     ints.  Was that the intent of your change?"

	     Can't it be left unchanged, as [*] ?

	     Brad's issues on 7.9.4 should be filed as a separate Mantis.

15.    1680  changes by the Champions were made
             [Shalom] Suggested a new mantis to be opened.

	     Several changes suggested to be addressed in a separate mantis.  
             These are listed in a bugnote to mantis 1680.
	     [Neil] mantis item 2002 has been opened to address these issues.

16.    1655  changes by the Champions were made
             [Shalom] friendly ammendments suggested
	     The sentence, "The changes in this proposal are based on the
	     P1800-2008-draft2.pdf document" should refer to Draft 3a to avoid
	     confusion.

17. No 1615  changes by the Champions were made
	     no - Shalom
	     [Shalom]
	     I still feel that this language of 1615 is confusing:

		"Calling a function that executes a fork..join_none block shall 
		be illegal in any context in which ... or any context other 
		than in ..." 

	     1) Is there any reason to write, "in any context in which" instead 
		of simply "wherever"?
	     2) Can't "illegal in ... any context other than in" be written 
		simply as "legal only in"?
	     3) Probably "or" should be "and".

	     I don't think this is minor wordsmithing. I think the proposed 
	     language is confusing.

	     4) Also, in "Examples of such illegal contexts are ... static 
		variable declaration initialized", should the last word be 
		"initializers"?
	     5) "initial block" should be "initial procedure".

             [Brad] friendly ammendments suggested
	     13) The editor, when implementing 1615, change "join_noen" to
		 "join_none".
18.    1612  changes by the Champions were made
19. No 1609  changes by the Champions were made
	     no - Brad
	     [Brad] The new text is out of place where proposed, as becomes more
	     apparent if you look at the full original paragraph instead of 
	     just the proposal in isolation.  The better place for this 
	     restriction is a normative footnote in the BNF, specifically on 
	     the first production in class_property of A.1.8.  It should say 
	     something like, "It shall be illegal for a data_declaration in a 
	     class_property to be a package_import_declaration."
20.    1605  changes by the Champions were made
21. No 1580  changes by the Champions were made
	     no - Shalom
	     [Shalom]
	     1) If Brad's re-ordering suggesting is adopted, I would change my 
	        vote to yes.
	     2) I still think the last sentence, "All other objects may be 
	        referenced," is still a little unclear. Better would be, if I 
		have understood it correctly, "All other objects may be 
		referenced even through a port or a virtual interface." If I 
		did not understand it correctly, then my vote is still no.
	     Editorial corrections:
	     3) Change "in either the module header or port connection" to
	        "in either the module header or a port connection".
	     4) Change "or if there are modports" to "or whether there are 
		modports".
             [Brad] friendly ammendments suggested
	     14) The editor, when implementing 1580, clarify the text to make 
                 it read more smoothly, taking into account Shalom's earlier 
                 comments, and reordering the penultimate sentence to "When an 
                 interface is connected with a modport in either the module 
                 header or port connection, then, for those types of objects 
                 legal to be listed in a modport (nets, variables, subroutines, 
                 and clocking blocks), access through a port or through a 
                 virtual interface is limited to only those objects listed in 
                 the modport."
22. No 1556  no changes were needed
	     no - Brad, Shalom, Stu
	     [Brad]
	     2) Doesn't this break backward compatibility with traditional
	        Verilog by requiring an explicit lifetime keyword for all 
                initialized variables in static tasks and functions?
	     3) In any case, reverting this change is not necessary.  Users
	        are free to add 'static', and methodologies are free to require
	        'static', but there's no language reason to again make it 
                mandatory for everybody.
	     4) The example is confusing.
	     5) The comments in the example are wrong, because they say 
                1 2 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 should be printed, 
                but actually it should be 2 3 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
             [Shalom]
	     The example comments are not correct, since the code should not 
	     compile.  The actual behavior would depend on how the illegality 
	     is fixed.  It also seems to depend on an execution ordering which 
	     is not specified in the LRM.
	     [Stu]
             I vote no because the e-mail discussion from other champions 
	     leads me to believe that the proposal needs further analysis from 
	     the SV-EC.

23.    1545  section numbers were updated
24.    1480  no changes were needed
25.    1427  section numbers were updated
26.    1371  no changes were required
             [Shalom] friendly ammendments suggested
	     "constructs", as in "initial constructs", should be "procedures".

27. No 1336  section numbers were updated
	     no - Shalom
	     [Shalom]
	     1) Same wording problem as in 1615.
	     2) Question:
		1615 proposal says, "Calling a function that executes a 
		fork..join_none block shall be illegal in any context in which 
		a side effect is disallowed or any context other than 
		procedural code originating in an initial block."

		1336 proposal says, "A function that tries to schedule an event 
		that will become active only after that function returns shall 
		be an error in any context in which a side effect is disallowed 
		or in any context other than a thread originating in an initial 
		or always block."

		1615 proposal does not mention always block and 1336 proposal 
		does. Is that correct?
	     3) "always block" should be "always procedure".
             [Brad] friendly ammendments suggested
	     15) The editor, when implementing 1336, change "shall not have" 
                 to "shall not contain".
28.     888  section numbers were updated
             [Brad] friendly ammendments suggested
	     16) The editor, when implmenting 888, make sure the dot after 
                 implicit_class_handle is red.
29.     594  section numbers were updated
Received on Wed Aug 29 18:36:53 2007

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