Hi Yaniv: I think we need to converge on what syntax we want and then see how to accommodate the VPI. From my perspective, there could be a resonable tradeoff between syntax improvement and VPI backward compatibility. J.H. > Content-class: urn:content-classes:message > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 > X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Feb 2008 16:39:23.0250 (UTC) FILETIME=[D12C9520:01C8724C] > Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 09:39:20 -0700 > X-MS-Has-Attach: > X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: > Thread-Topic: [sv-ac] RE: call to vote on 2173 > Thread-Index: AchuNGFgmmUEFXhSRy6dB1DW1FANJQD+NjhgAAE6+gAABCPMAAAA2/swAADbcXAAAEJ2IA== > From: "Fais Yaniv" <yaniv.fais@freescale.com> > Cc: "Lisa Piper" <piper@cadence.com>, > "Korchemny, Dmitry" <dmitry.korchemny@intel.com> > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8724C.D19F0600 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="us-ascii" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > Hi Bassam, > =20 > Sorry for not being specific enough and also for being ignorant on VPI - > I meant that the change is backwards compatible in terms of the syntax > but I definitely agree it isn't backwards compatible in terms of the > VPI.=20 > =20 > Therefore I shall put back the the if-else inside the property expr in > VPI and remove property stmt from the VPI - I will try therefore to > incorporate the case into the VPI diagram of property expr (such as in > 36.62) and see how it goes. > =20 > =20 > Thanks, > Yaniv > =20 > > ________________________________ > > From: Bassam Tabbara [mailto:Bassam.Tabbara@synopsys.com]=20 > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 18:22 > To: Fais Yaniv; Bassam Tabbara; Havlicek John; sv-ac@eda.org > Cc: Lisa Piper; Korchemny, Dmitry > Subject: RE: [sv-ac] RE: call to vote on 2173 > > > Hi Yaniv, > =20 > I did see your reply, and I don't understand the 2nd bullet -- it occurs > to me just now that you seem to be mixing the BNF and the VPI, they are > independent (sometimes BNF is used as a starting point for VPI model's > inspiration yes but they are certainly not 1-1) ... you can surely make > the change to BNF (because of ";" (?) I have to look that over to > understand) and keep VPI as is (+ add operator). Again "property_expr" > is just a modeling construct actually different from the "property_expr" > construct in BNF. > =20 > As to the 1st this is *not* backward compatible as far as VPI -- you now > have the extra property statement wrapper. > =20 > Thx. > -Bassam. > =20 > > ________________________________ > > From: Fais Yaniv [mailto:yaniv.fais@freescale.com]=20 > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 8:14 AM > To: Bassam Tabbara; Havlicek John; sv-ac@eda.org > Cc: Lisa Piper; Korchemny, Dmitry > Subject: RE: [sv-ac] RE: call to vote on 2173 > > > Hi Bassam, > =20 > have you seen my reply to Lisa ? (it also took time to show in the > reflector) > =20 > I appended it to this mail so please comment if there is anything you > disagree on so we can converge for the next vote. > =20 > =20 > I want to highlight this again: > - the if-else is backwards compatible and it was moved to the > property statement layer since it seems more adequate there (it is a > statement also in procedural code). > - adding the operator to the property_expr would make this construct > use irregular in SV (because of the semicolon after endcase) and we were > trying to avoid just that. > =20 > Thanks, > Yaniv > =20 > > > ________________________________ > > From: Bassam Tabbara [mailto:Bassam.Tabbara@synopsys.com]=20 > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 17:36 > To: Fais Yaniv; Korchemny, Dmitry; Havlicek John; sv-ac@eda.org > Cc: Lisa Piper > Subject: RE: [sv-ac] RE: call to vote on 2173 > > > Hi Yaniv/all, > =20 > Seems reflector swallowed my earlier vote on this. I voted no because of > the VPI issues -- I did not see the note on page 1 at the time but > regardless I agree with Lisa -- I don't understand why you have > "property stmt" and the backward incompatible changes that affect > if-else. I think just adding operand to property_expr should do -- I > don't accept the reasoning for "changing case/endcase", this construct > is part of SV and should not be changed in any way here. > =20 > ** It might be better to just split proposal in this case. I really see > no reason for the radical changes here for something as trivial as a new > operator, please split to permit a yes vote on the content portion. > =20 > Thx. > -Bassam. > =20 > > ________________________________ > > From: owner-sv-ac@eda.org [mailto:owner-sv-ac@eda.org] On Behalf Of Fais > Yaniv > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 6:09 AM > To: Korchemny, Dmitry; Havlicek John; sv-ac@eda.org > Subject: [sv-ac] RE: call to vote on 2173 > > > > Hi Dmitry, > > please see my comments below. > > Yaniv > > -----Original Message----- > From: Korchemny, Dmitry [mailto:dmitry.korchemny@intel.com] > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 15:10 > To: Havlicek John; sv-ac@eda.org > Cc: Bustan, Doron; eduard.cerny@synopsys.com; Fais Yaniv; > Manisha_Kulshrestha@mentor.com; johan.martensson@jasper-da.com; > piper@cadence.com; Seligman, Erik; bassam.tabbara@synopsys.com; > thomas.thatcher@sun.com > Subject: RE: call to vote on 2173 > > Hi John, Yaniv, > > I have the following questions/comments: > > * Page 3, bottom. The statement "The case expression given in > parentheses shall be evaluated exactly once and before any of the case > item statements." > > is not clear to me. As far as I understand al the expressions in the > case statement should be sampled (unless they are continuous checker > variables). I think that this statement has to be deleted. > > * I suggest rewriting the whole paragraph, describing the case > statement, it should use more intuitive language. > > [Yaniv Fais] actually this paragraph was almost copy pasted from the > procedural case statement (see 12.5) since I found it defines exactly > how this evaluates in a nonambiguous way , I agree however that the > sentence you've mentioned is irrelevant since it is meaningful only when > the expressions are allowed to have side effects so I shall remove it. > > * Fix fonts in h) and in 16.5.1 on page 4. > > [Yaniv Fais] I made "(b!=3D=3Db1 && b!=3D=3Db2)" Italic in "h)", and = > "b1:q1 > b2:q2" Times-New Roman /Italic/10 in 16.5.1 > > * Page 4, 36.45 > > VPI looks incomplete. property_stmt is not explained. > > [Yaniv Fais] The VPI diagram for property statement is missing, it > should be done hopefully with collaboration from SV-CC (This is > mentioned on page 1). > > Dmitry > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Havlicek [mailto:john.havlicek@freescale.com] > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 1:32 PM > To: sv-ac@eda.org > Cc: Bustan, Doron; eduard.cerny@synopsys.com; yaniv.fais@freescale.com; > john.havlicek@freescale.com; Korchemny, Dmitry; > Manisha_Kulshrestha@mentor.com; johan.martensson@jasper-da.com; > piper@cadence.com; Seligman, Erik; bassam.tabbara@synopsys.com; > thomas.thatcher@sun.com > Subject: call to vote on 2173 > > This is the call to vote on 2173. > The document on Mantis is 2173_prop_case_080212_yf.pdf. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ---------- > Ballot on Mantis 2173 > > - Called on 2008-02-13, final ballots due by 2008-02-18 T 23:59-08:00. > - Please ensure that Dmitry Korchemny receives your ballot. > > v[-xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx-xx] Doron Bustan > (Intel) > v[xxxxxxxxx--xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx-x] Eduard Cerny > (Synopsys) =20 > n[--------------------------x-xxx---------x-x-xxx-x---x] Surrendra > Dudani (Synopsys) > v[xx-xxxxxxxxx-xxxxxx-xxxxxxxxx-xx-xxxxx-xxx-xxx-------] Yaniv Fais > (Freescale) > t[xxxxxxxx--xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] John Havlicek > (Freescale - Chair) > v[xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxrxxxxxxxxxxxxx-xxx] Dmitry > Korchemny (Intel - Co-Chair) > v[xxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxx-xxx-x--xx--xxxxx----------xx-xxxx] Manisha > Kulshrestha (Mentor Graphics) > n[-x-x-------------------------------------------------] Ah-Lam Lee > (Qualcomm) > n[----------------------------------xxxxx-------x-xx-x-] Jiang Long > (Mentor Graphics) > n[-------------x------------x--xxx.....................] Joseph Lu > (Altera) > n[-x--xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx..............................] Johan > Martensson (Jasper) > n[-------------------------------x--x-xx--xx-xxxxxxx-x-] Hillel Miller > (Freescale) > v[xxxxxxxxx-xxxx-xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxx] Lisa Piper > (Cadence) > v[xxxxxxxxxx-x-x-xx-xxxxxxx-x-xxxxx-x..................] Erik Seligman > (Intel) > n[-----------x-x----x--------xxxx-----xxxx-xx----------] Tej Singh > (Mentor Graphics) > v[xxx-xxxxxx-x-xxxxxx--xxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Bassam Tabbara > (Synopsys) > v[xxxxxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxx...............] Tom Thatcher > (Sun Microsystems) > |----------------------------------------------------- attendance on > 2008-02-12 > |------------------------------------------------------- voting > eligibility for this ballot > |-------------------------------------------------------- e-mail votes > received > > Legend: > x =3D attended > - =3D missed > r =3D represented > . =3D not yet a member > v =3D valid voter (2 out of last 3 or 3/4 overall) > n =3D not a valid voter > t =3D chair eligible to vote only to make or break a tie > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Intel Israel (74) Limited > > This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for > the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution by > others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, > please contact the sender and delete all copies. > > > > > --=20 > This message has been scanned for viruses and=20 > dangerous content by MailScanner <http://www.mailscanner.info/> , and is > > believed to be clean.=20 > > =20 > Append of earlier mail addressing comments from Lisa: > =20 > > Hi Lisa, > > please see my comments below. > > Yaniv > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lisa Piper [mailto:piper@cadence.com] > Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 01:30 > To: Havlicek John; sv-ac@eda.org > Cc: doron.bustan@intel.com; eduard.cerny@synopsys.com; Fais Yaniv; > dmitry.korchemny@intel.com; Manisha_Kulshrestha@mentor.com; > johan.martensson@jasper-da.com; erik.seligman@intel.com; > bassam.tabbara@synopsys.com; thomas.thatcher@sun.com > Subject: RE: call to vote on 2173 > > Why does this proposal add this to property but not to sequences. The > one example that is provided seems to be more appropriate for a > sequence. > > > > [Yaniv Fais] Although Mantis 2173 asks to add the case construct to > sequences and properties John and I decided at this late stage to add > the "case" construct to properties only (which maybe extended to > sequences later) - this is because properties already have a higher > level statement like "if...else" whereas sequences only have sequence > expressions with the sequence operators > > In the VPI diagrams (36.45 Property specification) the blue "stmt" > should be "statement".=20 > > [Yaniv Fais] I have notices throughout clause 36 (VPI diagrams) "stmt" > is used consistently as an abbreviation for statement whereas "expr" for > expression (see 36.51 for example) therefore I thought "property > statement" should be "property stmt" much like there is "atomic stmt" or > "foreach stmt". > > > Why was property statement created instead of just adding this to > property_expr. What was lost by moving the if-else out from > property_expr? I feel like I am missing something. > > > [Yaniv Fais] property statement was created in order to avoid the > addition of extra semicolons in uncommon places - for example if "case" > was added inside property_expr then it would be required to write for > example: > > property p; > > s |=3D>=20 > > case (wait) > > 1:... > > endcase ; > > endproperty > > notice here there is an extra semicolon after the endcase - this is > uncommon in the language and we wanted to avoid it. > > =20 > > regarding moving if..else out from property_expr to property statement : > I think this is backward compatible since property statement is also > "property_expr ; " therefore the same syntax which was allowed before is > also allowed now - by making this change however new syntax is added - > for example: > > if (expr1) > > a |=3D> b; > > else > > a && b; > > =20 > > In the past this was illegal because of the semicolons but now the > semicolons are optional , by this proposal however it would be possible > to put extra semicolons after every property_expr so also "if (e1) q1;; > else q2" is legal (this is written in the comments addressed in the > objective part of the proposal). > > > Lisa > > > > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8724C.D19F0600 > Content-Type: text/html; > charset="us-ascii" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> > <HTML><HEAD><TITLE></TITLE> > <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = > charset=3Dus-ascii"> > <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16587" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> > <BODY> > <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D533362316-18022008><FONT = > face=3DArial=20 > color=3D#0000ff>Hi Bassam,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> > <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D533362316-18022008><FONT = > face=3DArial=20 > color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> > <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D533362316-18022008><FONT = > face=3DArial=20 > color=3D#0000ff>Sorry for not being specific enough and also for being = > ignorant on=20 > VPI - I meant that the change is backwards compatible in terms of = > the=20 > syntax but I definitely agree it isn't backwards compatible in terms of = > the=20 > VPI. </FONT></SPAN></DIV> > <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D533362316-18022008><FONT = > face=3DArial=20 > color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> > <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D533362316-18022008><FONT = > face=3DArial=20 > color=3D#0000ff>Therefore I shall put back the the if-else inside the = > property=20 > expr in VPI and remove property stmt from the VPI - I will try therefore = > to=20 > incorporate the case into the VPI diagram of property expr (such = > as in=20 > 36.62) and see how it goes.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> > <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D533362316-18022008><FONT = > face=3DArial=20 > color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> > <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D533362316-18022008><FONT = > face=3DArial=20 > color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> > <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D533362316-18022008><FONT = > face=3DArial=20 > color=3D#0000ff>Thanks,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> > <DIV><SPAN class=3D533362316-18022008></SPAN><FONT face=3DArial = > color=3D#0000ff><SPAN=20 > class=3D533362316-18022008>Yaniv</SPAN></FONT></DIV> > <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff><SPAN=20 > class=3D533362316-18022008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> > <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><BR></DIV> > <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft> > <HR tabIndex=3D-1> > <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Bassam Tabbara=20 > [mailto:Bassam.Tabbara@synopsys.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, February = > 18, 2008=20 > 18:22<BR><B>To:</B> Fais Yaniv; Bassam Tabbara; Havlicek John;=20 > sv-ac@eda.org<BR><B>Cc:</B> Lisa Piper; Korchemny, = > Dmitry<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE:=20 > [sv-ac] RE: call to vote on 2173<BR></FONT><BR></DIV> > <DIV></DIV> > <DIV><SPAN class=3D559101616-18022008><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = > size=3D2>Hi=20 > Yaniv,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> > <DIV><SPAN class=3D559101616-18022008><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = > > size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> > <DIV><SPAN class=3D559101616-18022008><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = > size=3D2>I did=20 > see your reply, and I don't understand the 2nd bullet -- it occurs to me = > just=20 > now that you seem to be mixing the BNF and the VPI, they are independent = > > (sometimes BNF is used as a starting point for VPI model's inspiration = > yes but=20 > they are certainly not 1-1) ... you can surely make the change to=20 > BNF (because of ";" (?) I have to look that over to understand) and = > keep=20 > VPI as is (+ add operator). Again "property_expr" is just a modeling = > construct=20 > actually different from the "property_expr" construct in=20 > BNF.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> > <DIV><SPAN class=3D559101616-18022008><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = > > size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> > <DIV><SPAN class=3D559101616-18022008><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = > size=3D2>As to=20 > the 1st this is *not* backward compatible as far as VPI -- you now have = > the=20 > extra property statement wrapper.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> > <DIV> </DIV> > <DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thx.</FONT></DIV> > <DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>-Bassam.</FONT></DIV> > <DIV> </DIV><BR> > <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft> > <HR tabIndex=3D-1> > <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Fais Yaniv=20 > [mailto:yaniv.fais@freescale.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, February 18, = > 2008=20 > 8:14 AM<BR><B>To:</B> Bassam Tabbara; Havlicek John; = > sv-ac@eda.org<BR><B>Cc:</B>=20 > Lisa Piper; Korchemny, Dmitry<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [sv-ac] RE: call to = > vote on=20 > 2173<BR></FONT><BR></DIV> > <DIV></DIV> > <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff><SPAN=20 > class=3D877375115-18022008>Hi Bassam,</SPAN></FONT></DIV> > <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff><SPAN=20 > class=3D877375115-18022008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> > <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff><SPAN=20 > class=3D877375115-18022008>have you seen my reply to Lisa ?=20 > (it also took time to show in the = > reflector)</SPAN></FONT></DIV> > <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff><SPAN=20 > class=3D877375115-18022008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> > <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff><SPAN=20 > class=3D877375115-18022008>I appended it to this mail so please comment = > if there=20 > is anything you disagree on so we can converge for the next=20 > vote.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> > <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff><SPAN=20 > class=3D877375115-18022008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> > <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff><SPAN=20 > class=3D877375115-18022008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> > <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff><SPAN=20 > class=3D877375115-18022008>I want to highlight this = > again:</SPAN></FONT></DIV> > <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff><SPAN=20 > class=3D877375115-18022008> - the if-else is backwards = > compatible and=20 > it was moved to the property statement layer since it seems more = > adequate there=20 > (it is a statement also in procedural code).</SPAN></FONT></DIV> > <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff><SPAN=20 > class=3D877375115-18022008> - adding the operator to the = > property_expr=20 > would make this construct use irregular in SV (because of the semicolon = > after=20 > endcase) and we were trying to avoid just that.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> > <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff><SPAN=20 > class=3D877375115-18022008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> > <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff><SPAN=20 > class=3D877375115-18022008>Thanks,</SPAN></FONT></DIV> > <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff><SPAN=20 > class=3D877375115-18022008>Yaniv</SPAN></FONT></DIV> > <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff><SPAN=20 > class=3D877375115-18022008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20 > color=3D#0000ff></FONT><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff></FONT><BR> > <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft> > <HR tabIndex=3D-1> > <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Bassam Tabbara=20 > [mailto:Bassam.Tabbara@synopsys.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, February = > 18, 2008=20 > 17:36<BR><B>To:</B> Fais Yaniv; Korchemny, Dmitry; Havlicek John;=20 > sv-ac@eda.org<BR><B>Cc:</B> Lisa Piper<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [sv-ac] = > RE: call=20 > to vote on 2173<BR></FONT><BR></DIV> > <DIV></DIV> > <DIV><SPAN class=3D647012715-18022008><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = > size=3D2>Hi=20 > Yaniv/all,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> > <DIV><SPAN class=3D647012715-18022008><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = > > size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> > <DIV><SPAN class=3D647012715-18022008><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = > size=3D2>Seems=20 > reflector swallowed my earlier vote on this. I voted no because of the = > VPI=20 > issues -- I did not see the note on page 1 at the time but regardless I = > agree=20 > with Lisa -- I don't understand why you have "property stmt" and the = > backward=20 > incompatible changes that affect if-else. </FONT></SPAN><SPAN=20 > class=3D647012715-18022008><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I = > think just=20 > adding operand to property_expr should do -- I don't accept the = > reasoning for=20 > "changing case/endcase", this construct is part of SV and should not be = > changed=20 > in any way here.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> > <DIV><SPAN class=3D647012715-18022008><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = > > size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> > <DIV><SPAN class=3D647012715-18022008><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = > > size=3D2>** It might be better to just split proposal in this = > case. I=20 > really see no reason for the radical changes here for something as = > trivial as a=20 > new operator, please split to permit a yes vote on the content = > > portion.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> > <DIV> </DIV> > <DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thx.</FONT></DIV> > <DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>-Bassam.</FONT></DIV> > <DIV> </DIV><BR> > <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft> > <HR tabIndex=3D-1> > <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> owner-sv-ac@eda.org=20 > [mailto:owner-sv-ac@eda.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Fais = > Yaniv<BR><B>Sent:</B>=20 > Monday, February 18, 2008 6:09 AM<BR><B>To:</B> Korchemny, Dmitry; = > Havlicek=20 > John; sv-ac@eda.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> [sv-ac] RE: call to vote on=20 > 2173<BR></FONT><BR></DIV> > <DIV></DIV><!-- Converted from text/plain format --> > <P><FONT size=3D2>Hi Dmitry,<BR><BR>please see my comments=20 > below.<BR><BR>Yaniv<BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: = > Korchemny, Dmitry=20 > [<A=20 > href=3D"mailto:dmitry.korchemny@intel.com">mailto:dmitry.korchemny@intel.= > com</A>]<BR>Sent:=20 > Monday, February 18, 2008 15:10<BR>To: Havlicek John; = > sv-ac@eda.org<BR>Cc:=20 > Bustan, Doron; eduard.cerny@synopsys.com; Fais Yaniv;=20 > Manisha_Kulshrestha@mentor.com; johan.martensson@jasper-da.com;=20 > piper@cadence.com; Seligman, Erik; bassam.tabbara@synopsys.com;=20 > thomas.thatcher@sun.com<BR>Subject: RE: call to vote on 2173<BR><BR>Hi = > John,=20 > Yaniv,<BR><BR>I have the following questions/comments:<BR><BR>* Page 3, = > bottom.=20 > The statement "The case expression given in parentheses shall be = > evaluated=20 > exactly once and before any of the case item statements."<BR><BR>is not = > clear to=20 > me. As far as I understand al the expressions in the case statement = > should be=20 > sampled (unless they are continuous checker variables). I think that = > this=20 > statement has to be deleted.<BR><BR>* I suggest rewriting the whole = > paragraph,=20 > describing the case statement, it should use more intuitive=20 > language.<BR><BR><FONT color=3D#0000ff>[Yaniv Fais] actually this = > paragraph was=20 > almost copy pasted from the procedural case statement (see 12.5) since I = > found=20 > it defines exactly how this evaluates in a nonambiguous way , I agree = > however=20 > that the sentence you've mentioned is irrelevant since it is meaningful = > only=20 > when the expressions are allowed to have side effects so I shall remove=20 > it.</FONT><BR><BR>* Fix fonts in h) and in 16.5.1 on page 4.</FONT></P> > <P><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20 > style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; = > mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; = > mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: HE">[Yaniv=20 > Fais] I made "<EM>(b!=3D=3Db</EM></SPAN><EM><SPAN=20 > style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; = > mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; = > mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: HE">1</SPAN><SPAN=20 > style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; = > mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; = > mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: HE">=20 > && b!=3D=3Db</SPAN><SPAN=20 > style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; = > mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; = > mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: HE">2)"=20 > Italic in "h)", <FONT size=3D2>and "</FONT><SPAN=20 > style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; = > mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; = > mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: HE">b</SPAN><SPAN=20 > style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; = > mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; = > mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: HE">1</SPAN><SPAN=20 > style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; = > mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; = > mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: HE">:q</SPAN><SPAN=20 > style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; = > mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; = > mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: HE">1</SPAN><SPAN=20 > style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; = > mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; = > mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: HE">=20 > b</SPAN><SPAN=20 > style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; = > mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; = > mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: HE">2</SPAN><SPAN=20 > style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; = > mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; = > mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: HE">:q</SPAN><SPAN=20 > style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; = > mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; = > mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: HE">2"=20 > Times-New Roman /Italic/10 in 16.5.1</SPAN></SPAN></EM><BR><BR>* Page 4, = > > 36.45<BR><BR>VPI looks incomplete. property_stmt is not = > explained.</FONT></P> > <P><FONT size=3D2><FONT color=3D#0000ff>[Yaniv Fais] The VPI diagram for = > property=20 > statement is missing, it should be done hopefully with collaboration = > from SV-CC=20 > (This is mentioned on page = > 1).</FONT><BR><BR>Dmitry<BR><BR>-----Original=20 > Message-----<BR>From: John Havlicek [<A=20 > href=3D"mailto:john.havlicek@freescale.com">mailto:john.havlicek@freescal= > e.com</A>]<BR>Sent:=20 > Wednesday, February 13, 2008 1:32 PM<BR>To: sv-ac@eda.org<BR>Cc: Bustan, = > Doron;=20 > eduard.cerny@synopsys.com; yaniv.fais@freescale.com;=20 > john.havlicek@freescale.com; Korchemny, Dmitry; = > Manisha_Kulshrestha@mentor.com;=20 > johan.martensson@jasper-da.com; piper@cadence.com; Seligman, Erik;=20 > bassam.tabbara@synopsys.com; thomas.thatcher@sun.com<BR>Subject: call to = > vote on=20 > 2173<BR><BR>This is the call to vote on 2173.<BR>The document on Mantis = > is=20 > 2173_prop_case_080212_yf.pdf.<BR><BR>------------------------------------= > ------------------------------------<BR>----------<BR>Ballot=20 > on Mantis 2173<BR><BR>- Called on 2008-02-13, final ballots due by = > 2008-02-18 T=20 > 23:59-08:00.<BR>- Please ensure that Dmitry Korchemny receives your=20 > ballot.<BR><BR> v[-xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx= > -xx]=20 > Doron=20 > Bustan<BR>(Intel)<BR> v[xxxxxxxxx--xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx= > xxxxxxx-x]=20 > Eduard=20 > Cerny<BR>(Synopsys) <BR> n[------------------= > --------x-xxx---------x-x-xxx-x---x]=20 > Surrendra Dudani (Synopsys) =20 > v[xx-xxxxxxxxx-xxxxxx-xxxxxxxxx-xx-xxxxx-xxx-xxx-------] Yaniv=20 > Fais<BR>(Freescale)<BR> t[xxxxxxxx--xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx= > xxxxxxxxxxx]=20 > John Havlicek (Freescale - Chair) =20 > v[xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxrxxxxxxxxxxxxx-xxx] Dmitry = > Korchemny (Intel=20 > - Co-Chair) = > v[xxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxx-xxx-x--xx--xxxxx----------xx-xxxx]=20 > Manisha Kulshrestha (Mentor Graphics) =20 > n[-x-x-------------------------------------------------] Ah-Lam=20 > Lee<BR>(Qualcomm)<BR> n[----------------------------------xxxxx-----= > --x-xx-x-]=20 > Jiang Long (Mentor Graphics) =20 > n[-------------x------------x--xxx.....................] Joseph=20 > Lu<BR>(Altera)<BR> n[-x--xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx........................= > ......]=20 > Johan Martensson (Jasper) =20 > n[-------------------------------x--x-xx--xx-xxxxxxx-x-] Hillel=20 > Miller<BR>(Freescale)<BR> v[xxxxxxxxx-xxxx-xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx-xxxxx= > xxx-xxxxxxxxx]=20 > Lisa=20 > Piper<BR>(Cadence)<BR> v[xxxxxxxxxx-x-x-xx-xxxxxxx-x-xxxxx-x........= > ..........]=20 > Erik=20 > Seligman<BR>(Intel)<BR> n[-----------x-x----x--------xxxx-----xxxx-x= > x----------]=20 > Tej Singh (Mentor Graphics) =20 > v[xxx-xxxxxx-x-xxxxxx--xxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Bassam=20 > Tabbara<BR>(Synopsys)<BR> v[xxxxxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxx..= > .............]=20 > Tom Thatcher (Sun Microsystems)<BR> =20 > |----------------------------------------------------- attendance=20 > on<BR>2008-02-12<BR> |----------------------------------------------= > ---------=20 > voting eligibility for this=20 > ballot<BR>|-------------------------------------------------------- = > e-mail=20 > votes<BR>received<BR><BR> =20 > Legend:<BR> &n= > bsp; =20 > x =3D=20 > attended<BR> &= > nbsp; =20 > - =3D=20 > missed<BR> &nb= > sp; =20 > r =3D=20 > represented<BR> &nbs= > p; =20 > . =3D not yet a=20 > member<BR> &nb= > sp; =20 > v =3D valid voter (2 out of last 3 or 3/4=20 > overall)<BR> &= > nbsp; =20 > n =3D not a valid=20 > voter<BR> &nbs= > p; =20 > t =3D chair eligible to vote only to make or break a=20 > tie<BR>------------------------------------------------------------------= > ---<BR>Intel=20 > Israel (74) Limited<BR><BR>This e-mail and any attachments may contain=20 > confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any = > review=20 > or distribution by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the = > intended=20 > recipient, please contact the sender and delete all = > copies.<BR><BR></P></FONT> > <DIV><BR>-- <BR>This message has been scanned for viruses and = > <BR>dangerous=20 > content by <A = > href=3D"http://www.mailscanner.info/"><B>MailScanner</B></A>, and is=20 > <BR>believed to be clean. <BR></DIV> > <DIV><SPAN class=3D877375115-18022008></SPAN> </DIV> > <DIV><SPAN class=3D877375115-18022008><FONT face=3DArial = > color=3D#0000ff>Append of=20 > earlier mail addressing comments from Lisa:</FONT></SPAN></DIV> > <DIV><SPAN class=3D877375115-18022008> =20 > <P><FONT size=3D2>Hi Lisa,<BR><BR>please see my comments=20 > below.<BR><BR>Yaniv<BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: Lisa = > Piper [<A=20 > title=3Dblocked::mailto:piper@cadence.com=20 > href=3D"mailto:piper@cadence.com">mailto:piper@cadence.com</A>]<BR>Sent: = > Saturday,=20 > February 16, 2008 01:30<BR>To: Havlicek John; sv-ac@eda.org<BR>Cc:=20 > doron.bustan@intel.com; eduard.cerny@synopsys.com; Fais Yaniv;=20 > dmitry.korchemny@intel.com; Manisha_Kulshrestha@mentor.com;=20 > johan.martensson@jasper-da.com; erik.seligman@intel.com;=20 > bassam.tabbara@synopsys.com; thomas.thatcher@sun.com<BR>Subject: RE: = > call to=20 > vote on 2173<BR><BR>Why does this proposal add this to property but not = > to=20 > sequences. The one example that is provided seems to be more appropriate = > for a=20 > sequence.<BR><BR></FONT></P> > <P><FONT size=3D2><FONT color=3D#0000ff>[Yaniv Fais] Although Mantis = > 2173 asks to=20 > add the case construct to sequences and properties John and I decided at = > this=20 > late stage to add the "case" construct to properties only (which maybe = > extended=20 > to sequences later) - this is because properties already have a higher = > level=20 > statement like "if...else" whereas sequences only have sequence = > expressions with=20 > the sequence operators<BR></FONT><BR>In the VPI diagrams (36.45 Property = > > specification) the blue "stmt"<BR>should be = > "statement". </FONT></P> > <P><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>[Yaniv Fais] I have notices throughout = > clause 36=20 > (VPI diagrams) "stmt" is used consistently as an abbreviation for = > statement=20 > whereas "expr" for expression (see 36.51 for example) therefore I = > thought=20 > "property statement" should be "property stmt" much like there is = > "atomic stmt"=20 > or "foreach stmt".</FONT></P><FONT size=3D2> > <P><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D3></FONT><BR>Why was = > property statement=20 > created instead of just adding this to property_expr. What was = > lost by=20 > moving the if-else out from property_expr? I feel like I am missing=20 > something.<BR></P> > <P><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D3>[Yaniv Fais] property = > statement was=20 > created in order to avoid the addition of extra semicolons in uncommon = > places -=20 > for example if "case" was added inside property_expr then it would be = > required=20 > to write for example:</FONT></P> > <P><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D3>property p;</FONT></P> > <P><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D3>s |=3D> </FONT></P> > <P><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D3> case = > (wait)</FONT></P> > <P><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D3> = > 1:...</FONT></P> > <P><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D3> endcase = > ;</FONT></P> > <P><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D3>endproperty</FONT></P> > <P><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D3>notice here there is an = > extra semicolon=20 > after the endcase - this is uncommon in the language and we wanted to = > avoid=20 > it.</FONT></P> > <P><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D3></FONT> </P> > <P><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D3>regarding moving if..else = > out from=20 > property_expr to property statement : I think this is backward = > compatible since=20 > property statement is also "property_expr ; " therefore the same syntax = > which=20 > was allowed before is also allowed now - by making this change however = > new=20 > syntax is added - for example:</FONT></P> > <P><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D3>if (expr1)</FONT></P> > <P><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D3> a |=3D> = > b;</FONT></P> > <P><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D3>else</FONT></P> > <P><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D3> a && = > b;</FONT></P> > <P><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D3></FONT> </P> > <P><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D3>In the past this was = > illegal because of=20 > the semicolons but now the semicolons are <STRONG>optional </STRONG>, by = > this=20 > proposal however it would be possible to put extra semicolons after = > every=20 > property_expr so also "if (e1) q1;; else q2" is legal (this is written = > in the=20 > comments addressed in the objective part of the proposal).</FONT></P> > <P><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D3></FONT><FONT face=3DArial = > color=3D#0000ff=20 > size=3D3></FONT><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D3></FONT><FONT = > face=3DArial=20 > color=3D#0000ff=20 > size=3D3></FONT><BR>Lisa<BR><BR></P></FONT></SPAN></DIV></BODY></HTML> > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8724C.D19F0600-- -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.Received on Mon Feb 18 09:18:18 2008
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