Hi Folks: My notes from our meeting 2008-02-12 are attached. Please let me know if changes are required. J.H. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. Minutes of IEEE P1800 SV-AC meeting #2007-39 Written by: John Havlicek Date: 2008-02-12 Time: 16:00 UTC (10:00 CST) Dialin information: ------------------- Toll number: +1 647 723 3904 Country Toll Free Number AUSTRALIA 1800009128 AUSTRIA 0800291873 BELGIUM 080077334 CANADA 8008671147 CHINA TELECOM (CT) 108001400732 CHINA NETCOM (CNC) 108007140759 DENMARK 80703159 FINLAND 0800770233 FRANCE 0800941695 GERMANY 08001014519 GREECE 0080016122039738 HONG KONG 800933578 HUNGARY 0680017180 INDIA 0008001006032 INDONESIA 008800105607 IRELAND 1800944116 ISRAEL 1809459738 ITALY 800782388 JAPAN 00531160427 LUXEMBOURG 80023985 MALAYSIA 1800808386 MONACO 80093186 NETHERLANDS 08002658223 NEW ZEALAND 0800443736 NORWAY 80057409 POLAND 008001114672 PORTUGAL 800819106 RUSSIA 81080022801012 SINGAPORE 8001011470 SOUTH AFRICA 0800992835 SOUTH KOREA 00308140540 SPAIN 900967020 SWEDEN 0201400559 SWITZERLAND 0800563054 TAIWAN 00801126585 THAILAND 0018001562039684 UNITED KINGDOM 08005280546 UNITED STATES 8008671147 Access Code: 7375405 Attendance Record: ------------------ Legend: x = attended - = missed r = represented . = not yet a member v = valid voter (2 out of last 3 or 3/4 overall) n = not a valid voter t = chair eligible to vote only to make or break a tie New PAR, attendance re-initialized on 2006-08-22: vv[-xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx-xx] Doron Bustan (Intel) vv[xxxxxxxxx--xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx-x] Eduard Cerny (Synopsys) nn[--------------------------x-xxx---------x-x-xxx-x---x] Surrendra Dudani (Synopsys) vv[xx-xxxxxxxxx-xxxxxx-xxxxxxxxx-xx-xxxxx-xxx-xxx-------] Yaniv Fais (Freescale) tt[xxxxxxxx--xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] John Havlicek (Freescale - Chair) vv[xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxrxxxxxxxxxxxxx-xxx] Dmitry Korchemny (Intel - Co-Chair) vv[xxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxx-xxx-x--xx--xxxxx----------xx-xxxx] Manisha Kulshrestha (Mentor Graphics) nn[-x-x-------------------------------------------------] Ah-Lam Lee (Qualcomm) nn[----------------------------------xxxxx-------x-xx-x-] Jiang Long (Mentor Graphics) nn[-------------x------------x--xxx.....................] Joseph Lu (Altera) nn[-x--xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx..............................] Johan Martensson (Jasper) nn[-------------------------------x--x-xx--xx-xxxxxxx-x-] Hillel Miller (Freescale) vv[xxxxxxxxx-xxxx-xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxx] Lisa Piper (Cadence) vv[xxxxxxxxxx-x-x-xx-xxxxxxx-x-xxxxx-x..................] Erik Seligman (Intel) nn[-----------x-x----x--------xxxx-----xxxx-xx----------] Tej Singh (Mentor Graphics) vv[xxx-xxxxxx-x-xxxxxx--xxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Bassam Tabbara (Synopsys) vv[xxxxxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxx...............] Tom Thatcher (Sun Microsystems) |---------------------------------------------------- attendance on 2008-02-12 |------------------------------------------------------ voting eligibility on 2008-02-12 |------------------------------------------------------- new voting eligibility Agenda: ------- - Reminder of IEEE patent policy. Champions e-mail ballot 2008-02-04 - Approved . 1549 Argument types - Insufficient participation . 1667 Local variable arguments . 1668 Local variable initializers . 1729 Immediate assume and cover - Failed with negative vote . 1728 Let . 1900 Checkers . 1995 Assertions and checkers in for loops Ballot results . 1987 Assertion statement . 2069 Formal semantics for coverage . 2088 Allow covergroups in checkers . 2110 Add checkers in procedural for loops . 2168 Formal semantics for edge-sensitive clocks . 2182 VPI diagrams for checkers . 2250 VPI changes for LTL operators Procedural topics - DK to tally ballots from now on? - We are entering the period of the massive review of SV-AC proposals by the champions, and this requires quick voting for the changes addressing the friendly amendments. The current meeting scheme allows approving a given proposal once in two or three weeks: addressing friendly amendments from the champions takes one week, voting takes another week and addressing friendly amendments from SV-AC takes yet another week. Therefore I suggest changing the schedule of our meetings to have three meetings a week: one one-hour meeting for discussions and voice voting and two 15-minute meetings for voice voting only. Old items . 1932 LTL operators - voice vote minor changes, ask to have added to Champions agenda . 1900 Checkers [on Champions agenda] - require another e-mail ballot . 1728 Let [on Champions agenda] - voice vote minor changes . 1995 in feedback [on Champions agenda] - voice vote minor changes . 2150 Disallow automatic variables in subroutine calls and action blocks - voice vote friendly amendments, ask have added to Champions agenda . 1503 Assertion VPI changes - Is SV-CC still working on this? E-mail ballots to be called: . 1698 Semantics of sampled value functions outside assertions . 2100 Synchronous resets . 1901 Identifier for ## should be constant 2100 needs review or ballot 2173 needs review or ballot Items with actions in other committees . 1599 API and VPI changes for 0805 - to be re-approved by SV-CC . 1769 Elaboration-time assertions - to be reviewed and approved by SV-BC . 2005 Glitches with immediate assertions - to be reviewed and approved by SV-CC . 2088 Covergroups in checkers - to be reviewed and approved by SV-EC . 2089 Covergroups in checkers - to be reviewed and approved by SV-BC and SV-EC Other items Notes: ------ - Reminder of IEEE patent policy. Champions e-mail ballot 2008-02-04 - Approved . 1549 Argument types - Insufficient participation . 1667 Local variable arguments . 1668 Local variable initializers . 1729 Immediate assume and cover - Failed with negative vote . 1728 Let . 1900 Checkers . 1995 Assertions and checkers in for loops Ballot results . 1987 Assertion statement - Passed no friendly amendments. JH to move to resolved. . 2069 Formal semantics for coverage - Failed due to insufficient votes. - SV-AC approved extending this ballot for one more day. 8y/0n/0a. JH to send email to that effect. . 2088 Allow covergroups in checkers - Passed with friendly amendments. - Voice vote to approve friendly amendments. 8y/0n/0a. Approved. JH to move to resolved. . 2110 Add checkers in procedural for loops - Passed with friendly amendments. 8y/0n/0a. Approved. JH to move to resolved. . 2168 Formal semantics for edge-sensitive clocks - Passed, no friendly amendments. JH to move to resolved. . 2182 VPI diagrams for checkers - Passed, friendly amendments. 8y/0n/0a. Approved. JH to send message: SV-AC request SV-CC to review and approve 2182. . 2250 VPI changes for LTL operators - Passed, friendly amendments. 8y/0n/0a. Approved. SV-AC request SV-CC to review and approved 2250. Message approved. JH will send it. Procedural topics - DK to tally ballots from now on? - We are entering the period of the massive review of SV-AC proposals by the champions, and this requires quick voting for the changes addressing the friendly amendments. The current meeting scheme allows approving a given proposal once in two or three weeks: addressing friendly amendments from the champions takes one week, voting takes another week and addressing friendly amendments from SV-AC takes yet another week. Therefore I suggest changing the schedule of our meetings to have three meetings a week: one one-hour meeting for discussions and voice voting and two 15-minute meetings for voice voting only. . Add meetings at 07:00 PST on 2008-02-21 and 2008-02-28. Further meetings in an extension if granted. . SV-AC request that the P1800 WG grant an extension until 2008-03-31 for the purpose of addressing feedback from Champions and to work with SV-CC on VPI/API changes for proposals that are resolved in SV-AC by the 2008-02-28 deadline. voice 7y/0n/0a JH will send this to the working group. Old items . 1932 LTL operators - voice vote minor changes, ask to have added to Champions agenda 8y/0n/0a. Approved. DB needs to implement the last change and send email. Then JH will move to resolved. . 1900 Checkers [on Champions agenda] - require another e-mail ballot DK made numerous changes from Champions. DK will update to address one outstanding comment from JH. JH will call for an email vote. . 1728 Let [on Champions agenda] - voice vote minor changes 8y/0n/0a. Approve fixing parenthesis mismatch. JH will move to resolved. . 1995 in feedback [on Champions agenda] - voice vote minor changes 8y/0n/0a. Approved. JH will move to the resolved state. . 2150 Disallow automatic variables in subroutine calls and action blocks - voice vote friendly amendments, ask have added to Champions agenda JH will look for mail from Manisha that this is implemented and then move state to resolved. . 1503 Assertion VPI changes - Is SV-CC still working on this? BT says it is still being resolved in SV-CC. Champions Major Negative Feedback on 1995: This proposal is essentially creating a generate block within a procedural context. I'm fine with limiting this to assertion statements for now, but that does alleviate addressing all the issues surrounding generated code. For example each assertion statement is replicated in the loop (including nested loops) and a generate block label needs to be created for every instance of each. The loop iterator should be treated as a genvar constant within each instance of the assertion statement. SV-AC Response: This is incorrect. The assertion is not being rewritten, and therefore no artificial generate block is created. The only effect is that the assertion is executed several times during the same time slot. Erik sent the following clarification: ... this proposal was specifically written (with help from your co-worker Gord) to *not* treat these as generate loops, and thus avoid the (very valid) issue you mention. Can you please re-review, in consultation with Gord? Thanks! Champions should review this. Voice vote to approve this response: 8y/0n/0a. Champions Major Negative Feedback on 1728: It seems very odd that the let statement is allowed on an immediate assertion, which is no more complex than a 'if' statement, but not allowed in any Boolean expression. I understand the SV-AC rush to add features to the language and limiting those features to assertions, but limited this kind of feature to assertions does not serve the end user and the language very well. If there are issues preventing wider adoption of this feature, let then be flushed out now. SV-AC Response: The original intent of SV-AC was to make this construct general, but since other committees did not have sufficient time budget for reviewing it, it was decided to limit it for assertions only. The proposal is formulated in the way that it can be extended in the future for additional areas of usage, and it is safer to publish first a limited version of the proposal than to come with an insufficiently elaborated general proposal. We believe that this feature is essential for building assertion libraries and for doing formal verification. SV-AC is already responsible for elaboration of templates for concurrent assertions (sequence and property constructs), and we see it as reasonable for SV-AC to provide a template for immediate assertions (let construct). Voice vote to approve this response: 8y/0n/0a. Champions Major Negative Feedback on 1900 This proposal needs to be addressed when it can have the full attention of all the committees as effects every part of the language. Otherwise, I feel that this enhancement goes beyond the level of enhancements authorized by the P1800 PAR in embedding a new language with SV. The number of keywords and statements being introduced can not be thoroughly reviewed with the resources we have for the current par. SV-AC Response: This proposal was a focal point of SV-AC this year. It generalizes the notion of a concurrent assertion and is a gating capability for building assertion libraries and for doing formal verification in SystemVerilog. We believe that the main application of checkers belongs to the SV-AC area, though this construct is also useful for coverage collection, and therefore it is within the bounds of the P1800 PAR. The number of introduced keywords is relatively small: - checker/endchecker - [free] checkvar - initial_check/always_check If the time required for reviewing this proposal is not sufficient, we believe that this issue should be addressed by the WG to extend the time line in order to allow proper reviewing of this proposal and addressing the reviewers' comments. Voice vote 8y/0n/0a. Response is approved. E-mail ballots to be called: . 1698 Semantics of sampled value functions outside assertions - LSB should be least significant byte. . 2100 Synchronous resets . 1901 Identifier for ## should be constant . 2173 Property case Items with actions in other committees . 1599 API and VPI changes for 0805 - to be re-approved by SV-CC . 1769 Elaboration-time assertions - to be reviewed and approved by SV-BC . 2005 Glitches with immediate assertions - to be reviewed and approved by SV-CC . 2088 Covergroups in checkers - to be reviewed and approved by SV-EC . 2089 Covergroups in checkers - to be reviewed and approved by SV-BC and SV-EC Other items ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Extension Schedule Legend: M: major item slot (2 concurrent) m: minor item slot (4 concurrnet) v: very minor item slot (no limit) d: draft preparation slot (no limit) Items returned from Committees: ------------------------------- 1601 // SV-EC 1599 // SV-CC, revision required 1758 // SV-BC, revision required Items in other Committees: -------------------------- 1503 // SV-CC [LP,BT are monitoring] 1757 // SV-CC 1898 // SV-CC Late Items m: 1756 // due 2007-12-11; review M: 1932 // due 2007-11-27; ballot & revision v: 1786 // due 2007-12-18; resolve in 1932 v: 1687 // due 2008-01-15; open m: 2172 // due 2008-01-15; open d: 2173 // draft due 2008-01-08 m: 2150 // due 2008-01-22; ballot & revision d: 0966/1982 // draft due 2008-01-22; open v: 1901 // review due 2008-01-15 m: 2100 // review due 2008-01-29 v: 1686 // review due 2008-01-29 v: 1830 // review due 2008-01-29 d: 1806 // draft due 2008-01-29 Schedule: --------- 2008-02-05 M: 2110 ballot & revision m: 2173 ballot & revision m: 0966/1982 ballot & revision m: 2100 ballot & revision m: 1806 review v: 1686 ballot & revision v: 1830 ballot & revision 2008-02-12 M: 2069 ballot & revision M: 1551 review m: 0966/1982 ballot & revision m: 2100 ballot & revision m: 2168 review m: 1806 review 2008-02-19 M: 2069 ballot & revision M: 1551 ballot & revision m: 2168 ballot & revision m: 1806 ballot & revision m: m: 2008-02-26 M: 1551 ballot & revision M: m: m: m: m:Received on Wed Feb 13 03:51:20 2008
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