Hi Folks: My notes from today's meeting are attached. Please let me know if corrections are required. J.H. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. Minutes of IEEE P1800 SV-AC meeting #2007-22 Written by: John Havlicek Date: 2007-09-25 Time: 16:00 UTC (11:00 CDT) Dialin information: ------------------- Country Number AUSTRALIA 1800009128 AUSTRIA 0800291873 BELGIUM 080077334 CANADA 8008671147 CHINA TELECOM (CT) 108001400732 CHINA NETCOM (CNC) 108007140759 DENMARK 80703159 FINLAND 0800770233 FRANCE 0800941695 GERMANY 08001014519 GREECE 0080016122039738 HONG KONG 800933578 HUNGARY 0680017180 INDIA 0008001006032 INDONESIA 008800105607 IRELAND 1800944116 ISRAEL 1809459738 ITALY 800782388 JAPAN 00531160427 LUXEMBOURG 80023985 MALAYSIA 1800808386 MONACO 80093186 NETHERLANDS 08002658223 NEW ZEALAND 0800443736 NORWAY 80057409 POLAND 008001114672 PORTUGAL 800819106 RUSSIA 81080022801012 SINGAPORE 8001011470 SOUTH AFRICA 0800992835 SOUTH KOREA 00308140540 SPAIN 900967020 SWEDEN 0201400559 SWITZERLAND 0800563054 TAIWAN 00801126585 THAILAND 0018001562039684 UNITED KINGDOM 08005280546 UNITED STATES 8008671147 Access Code: 7375405 Attendance Record: ------------------ Legend: x = attended - = missed r = represented . = not yet a member v = valid voter (2 out of last 3 or 3/4 overall) n = not a valid voter t = chair eligible to vote only to make or break a tie New PAR, attendance re-initialized on 2006-08-22: vv[xxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx-xx] Doron Bustan (Intel) vv[xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx-x] Eduard Cerny (Synopsys) nn[---------x-xxx---------x-x-xxx-x---x] Surrendra Dudani (Synopsys) vv[xx-xxxxxxxxx-xx-xxxxx-xxx-xxx-------] Yaniv Fais (Freescale) tt[xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] John Havlicek (Freescale - Chair) vv[xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxrxxxxxxxxxxxxx-xxx] Dmitry Korchemny (Intel - Co-Chair) vv[xx-xxx-x--xx--xxxxx----------xx-xxxx] Manisha Kulshrestha (Mentor Graphics) nn[-----------------xxxxx-------x-xx-x-] Jiang Long (Mentor Graphics) nn[---------x--xxx.....................] Joseph Lu (Altera) vv[xxxxxx..............................] Johan Martensson (Jasper) nn[--------------x--x-xx--xx-xxxxxxx-x-] Hillel Miller (Freescale) vv[xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxx] Lisa Piper (Cadence) vv[-xxxxxxx-x-xxxxx-x..................] Erik Seligman (Intel) vn[-x--------xxxx-----xxxx-xx----------] Tej Singh (Mentor Graphics) vv[xx--xxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Bassam Tabbara (Synopsys) vv[xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxx...............] Tom Thatcher (Sun Microsystems) |------------------------------------ attendance on 2007-09-25 |-------------------------------------- voting eligibility on 2007-09-25 |--------------------------------------- new voting eligibility Agenda: ------- - Reminder of IEEE patent policy. - Face-to-face arrangements. - Voice votes on friendly amendments to recently approved proposals (1681, 1668). - Feedback from the Champions. . Next steps for 1601 . Next steps for 1648 . Next steps for 1729 - 1758: Boolean operators ->, <-> [EC] - 1995: Assertions and checkers in for loops [ES] - 2005: Glitches with immediate assertions [ES] - 1549: Argument passing [DB, LP, JH] - 1932: LTL operators [DK, DB] - 1757: accept_on, reject_on [EC] - 1900: Checkers [ES] - 1682: Future value functions [DK] - 1756: Control of assertions in initial blocks [EC] - 1728: Let proposal [EC, DK] - Other items Notes: ------ - Reminder of IEEE patent policy. - Face-to-face arrangements. . Will we vote in the F2F? . TT: we can vote on matters of general direction, but have ordinary votes on proposals. LP agrees that we should not try to do things too quickly. We agreed that we can conduct regular business on proposals currently in the pipe (e.g., voice vote for approval of friendly amendments) during the regular meeting timeslot. . DK: We should prepare small presentations on issues and topics that are important to discuss. - DK will take 1900 - DK will take formal semantics for coverage - ES will do 2005 - JH will do 1667 - DB will do 1932 - BT will do 1898 - Voice votes on friendly amendments to recently approved proposals . 1681, JM suggested rewording of the sentence in TT's friendly amendment Voice vote: 8y/0n/0a. . 1668, LP's friendly amendment, font corrections Voice vote: 8y/0n/0a. - Feedback from the Champions. . 1601 next steps * waiting on 1549? * LP will review and send mail to JH to call for vote. . 1648 next steps * No response from other committees * Question from Jim Vellenga on "dist" in "disable iff", which doesn't show up in VPI object models. . DK, EC, and BT will align the VPI object model. . 1729 next steps * Champions criticized this for lack of clarity, improper LRM-ese. - EC will review and follow up in e-mail. . 1681 next steps * No feedback from Neil Korpusik on this. * JH will send a reminder to Neil about the process in the Champions vote. . 1737 next steps * Coloring needs to be fixed, friendly amendments (add "cover sequence" and some minor fixes). - EC needs to address comments from JH. - We need to deal with cover sequence. - EC will send the source to LP to try to address all the feedback. - 1758: Boolean operators ->, <-> [EC] . EC: Updated the proposal on 2007-09-18. Deals only with expressions. . DB: This should be ready for vote. . JH will call for an e-mail vote. - 1995: Assertions and checkers in for loops [ES] . ES is out today. . DK: There is a question about properly defining naming of resulting property. This should be analogous to generates. . DK: Original proposal says that external modification of loop variable does not affect the extraction of assertions in loop. DB suggested only allowing unrolling when index is local to loop. . DK to send mail to ES to see if this is ready for vote. . MK raised issue about example on p. 2. We need to follow the hierarchical naming as in the LRM. . JH: It looks like something needs to be fixed in that example. . DK agrees that this is not yet ready for vote. - 2005: Glitches with immediate assertions [ES] . DK: There are some controversial issues. This item needs much more discussion. Neither immediate assertions nor concurrent assertions do the job. Should we invent a new type of assertion, final assertions? Can we put these in functions, and if so, what is the clock? It looks like it is better to discuss this in the face-to-face and decide between the feasible alternatives. . TT: The example in the text needs to be changed. . DB: Putting temporal assertions inside functions doesn't make sense. - 1549: Argument passing [DB, LP, JH] . Discussed $item. DK suggested not using a notation that looks like a system function. JH asked for people to send suggestions. . Parentheses not allowed around $. Should this be a constant_primary? DK suggested not opening up this issue and just treat $ as a special case. . Passing compound sequence actuals to event expressions or sequence method calls. EC and MK thought it is not a good idea to add this capability involving an implicit declaration. DK though that for sequence method calls this could be useful. We agreed not to add this capability in this proposal. . There are still issues with $ in Section 6 and Footnote 21. - 1932: LTL operators [DK, DB] . DB: implies, iff added. Changed syntax for . DB strong/weak default in coverage. . DK: introduce two keywords, weak and strong. Have different defaults in assert and assume vs. cover. . No one voiced an objection to this approach. . JH asked how one can tell when the default applies. DB will think about this. - 1728: Let proposal [EC, DK] . Ready for vote? . DK: Manisha sent several comments. DK fixed the proposal. . This is ready to vote. JH will call for vote. - 1682: Future value functions [DK] . Ready for vote? . DK: There was a comment from TT, some explanation in LRM on how to implement it. . JH reiterated HM's concern that "let" applies only to assertions and not to the whole language. . DK: Let's call for vote. . JH will call for vote. We did not get to these items: - 1757: accept_on, reject_on [EC] - 1900: Checkers [ES] - 1756: Control of assertions in initial blocks [EC] - Other items Next meeting: ------------- 2007-10-02 at 16:00 UTC (11:00 CDT), 2 hour slot. Face-to-face (does not count toward attendance): 2007-10-02 07:00 to 17:00 (-0500), face-to-face 2007-10-03 07:00 to 17:00 (-0500), face-to-faceReceived on Tue Sep 25 11:43:22 2007
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