[sv-ac] notes from SV-AC meeting 2007-09-25

From: John Havlicek <john.havlicek_at_.....>
Date: Tue Sep 25 2007 - 11:42:44 PDT
Hi Folks:

My notes from today's meeting are attached.

Please let me know if corrections are required.

J.H.

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Minutes of IEEE P1800 SV-AC meeting #2007-22
Written by: John Havlicek

Date:  2007-09-25
Time:  16:00 UTC (11:00 CDT) 

Dialin information:
-------------------

Country                 Number

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CHINA NETCOM (CNC)      108007140759
DENMARK                 80703159
FINLAND                 0800770233
FRANCE                  0800941695
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INDIA                   0008001006032
INDONESIA               008800105607
IRELAND                 1800944116
ISRAEL                  1809459738
ITALY                   800782388
JAPAN                   00531160427
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NORWAY                  80057409
POLAND                  008001114672
PORTUGAL                800819106
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SPAIN                   900967020
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SWITZERLAND             0800563054
TAIWAN                  00801126585
THAILAND                0018001562039684
UNITED KINGDOM          08005280546
UNITED STATES           8008671147

Access Code:  7375405


Attendance Record:
------------------
        Legend:
                x = attended
                - = missed
                r = represented
                . = not yet a member
                v = valid voter (2 out of last 3 or 3/4 overall)
                n = not a valid voter
                t = chair eligible to vote only to make or break a tie

New PAR, attendance re-initialized on 2006-08-22:

vv[xxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx-xx] Doron Bustan (Intel)
vv[xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx-x] Eduard Cerny (Synopsys)     
nn[---------x-xxx---------x-x-xxx-x---x] Surrendra Dudani (Synopsys)
vv[xx-xxxxxxxxx-xx-xxxxx-xxx-xxx-------] Yaniv Fais (Freescale)
tt[xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] John Havlicek (Freescale - Chair)
vv[xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxrxxxxxxxxxxxxx-xxx] Dmitry Korchemny (Intel - Co-Chair)
vv[xx-xxx-x--xx--xxxxx----------xx-xxxx] Manisha Kulshrestha (Mentor Graphics)
nn[-----------------xxxxx-------x-xx-x-] Jiang Long (Mentor Graphics)
nn[---------x--xxx.....................] Joseph Lu (Altera)
vv[xxxxxx..............................] Johan Martensson (Jasper)
nn[--------------x--x-xx--xx-xxxxxxx-x-] Hillel Miller (Freescale)
vv[xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxx] Lisa Piper (Cadence)
vv[-xxxxxxx-x-xxxxx-x..................] Erik Seligman (Intel)
vn[-x--------xxxx-----xxxx-xx----------] Tej Singh (Mentor Graphics)
vv[xx--xxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Bassam Tabbara (Synopsys)
vv[xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxx...............] Tom Thatcher (Sun Microsystems)
   |------------------------------------ attendance on 2007-09-25
 |-------------------------------------- voting eligibility on 2007-09-25
|--------------------------------------- new voting eligibility


Agenda:
-------

- Reminder of IEEE patent policy.

- Face-to-face arrangements.
- Voice votes on friendly amendments to recently approved proposals 
  (1681, 1668).
- Feedback from the Champions.
  . Next steps for 1601
  . Next steps for 1648
  . Next steps for 1729
- 1758:  Boolean operators ->, <-> [EC]
- 1995:  Assertions and checkers in for loops [ES]
- 2005:  Glitches with immediate assertions [ES]
- 1549:  Argument passing [DB, LP, JH]
- 1932:  LTL operators [DK, DB]
- 1757:  accept_on, reject_on [EC]
- 1900:  Checkers [ES]
- 1682:  Future value functions [DK]
- 1756:  Control of assertions in initial blocks [EC]
- 1728:  Let proposal [EC, DK]
- Other items


Notes:
------

- Reminder of IEEE patent policy.

- Face-to-face arrangements.
  . Will we vote in the F2F?
  . TT:  we can vote on matters of general direction, but have ordinary
    votes on proposals.  LP agrees that we should not try to do things
    too quickly.  We agreed that we can conduct regular business on proposals 
    currently in the pipe (e.g., voice vote for approval of friendly
    amendments) during the regular meeting timeslot.

  . DK:  We should prepare small presentations on issues and topics that are important
    to discuss.  
    - DK will take 1900
    - DK will take formal semantics for coverage
    - ES will do 2005
    - JH will do 1667
    - DB will do 1932
    - BT will do 1898

- Voice votes on friendly amendments to recently approved proposals 
  . 1681, JM suggested rewording of the sentence in TT's friendly amendment
    Voice vote:  8y/0n/0a.
  . 1668, LP's friendly amendment, font corrections
    Voice vote:  8y/0n/0a.

- Feedback from the Champions.
  . 1601 next steps
    * waiting on 1549?
    * LP will review and send mail to JH to call for vote.
  . 1648 next steps
    * No response from other committees
    * Question from Jim Vellenga on "dist" in "disable iff", which doesn't 
      show up in VPI object models.
      . DK, EC, and BT will align the VPI object model.
  . 1729 next steps
    * Champions criticized this for lack of clarity, improper LRM-ese.
      - EC will review and follow up in e-mail.
  . 1681 next steps
    * No feedback from Neil Korpusik on this.
    * JH will send a reminder to Neil about the process in the Champions 
      vote.
  . 1737 next steps
    * Coloring needs to be fixed, friendly amendments (add "cover sequence"
      and some minor fixes).
      - EC needs to address comments from JH.
      - We need to deal with cover sequence.
      - EC will send the source to LP to try to address all the feedback.

- 1758:  Boolean operators ->, <-> [EC]
  . EC:  Updated the proposal on 2007-09-18.  Deals only with expressions.
  . DB:  This should be ready for vote.
  . JH will call for an e-mail vote.

- 1995:  Assertions and checkers in for loops [ES]
  . ES is out today.
  . DK:  There is a question about properly defining naming of 
    resulting property.  This should be analogous to generates.
  . DK:  Original proposal says that external modification of loop
    variable does not affect the extraction of assertions in loop.
    DB suggested only allowing unrolling when index is local to
    loop.
  . DK to send mail to ES to see if this is ready for vote.  
  . MK raised issue about example on p. 2.  We need to follow the
    hierarchical naming as in the LRM.
  . JH:  It looks like something needs to be fixed in that example.
  . DK agrees that this is not yet ready for vote.

- 2005:  Glitches with immediate assertions [ES]
  . DK:  There are some controversial issues.  This item needs much 
    more discussion.  Neither immediate assertions nor concurrent
    assertions do the job.  Should we invent a new type of assertion,
    final assertions?  Can we put these in functions, and if so, 
    what is the clock?  It looks like it is better to discuss this
    in the face-to-face and decide between the feasible alternatives.
  . TT:  The example in the text needs to be changed.
  . DB:  Putting temporal assertions inside functions doesn't make 
    sense.

- 1549:  Argument passing [DB, LP, JH]
  . Discussed $item.  DK suggested not using a notation that looks like
    a system function.  JH asked for people to send suggestions.
  . Parentheses not allowed around $.  Should this be a constant_primary?
    DK suggested not opening up this issue and just treat $ as a special
    case.
  . Passing compound sequence actuals to event expressions or sequence method 
    calls.  EC and MK thought it is not a good idea to add this capability 
    involving an implicit declaration.  DK though that for sequence method
    calls this could be useful.  We agreed not to add this capability in 
    this proposal.    
  . There are still issues with $ in Section 6 and Footnote 21.

- 1932:  LTL operators [DK, DB]
  . DB:  implies, iff added.  Changed syntax for 
  . DB strong/weak default in coverage.
  . DK:  introduce two keywords, weak and strong.  Have different
    defaults in assert and assume vs. cover.
  . No one voiced an objection to this approach.
  . JH asked how one can tell when the default applies.  DB will
    think about this.

- 1728:  Let proposal [EC, DK]
  . Ready for vote?
  . DK:  Manisha sent several comments.  DK fixed the proposal.
  . This is ready to vote.  JH will call for vote.

- 1682:  Future value functions [DK]
  . Ready for vote?
  . DK:  There was a comment from TT, some explanation in LRM on 
    how to implement it.
  . JH reiterated HM's concern that "let" applies only to assertions
    and not to the whole language.
  . DK:  Let's call for vote.
  . JH will call for vote.

We did not get to these items:

- 1757:  accept_on, reject_on [EC]
- 1900:  Checkers [ES]
- 1756:  Control of assertions in initial blocks [EC]

- Other items


Next meeting: 
-------------

2007-10-02 at 16:00 UTC (11:00 CDT), 2 hour slot.

Face-to-face (does not count toward attendance):

2007-10-02 07:00 to 17:00 (-0500), face-to-face
2007-10-03 07:00 to 17:00 (-0500), face-to-face
Received on Tue Sep 25 11:43:22 2007

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