[sv-ac] notes from SV-AC meeting 2007-08-21

From: John Havlicek <john.havlicek_at_.....>
Date: Tue Aug 21 2007 - 11:54:44 PDT
Hi Folks:

My notes from today's meeting are attached.  

Please let me know if changes are required.

J.H.

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Minutes of IEEE P1800 SV-AC meeting #2007-17
Written by: John Havlicek

Date:  2007-08-21
Time:  16:00 UTC (11:00 CDT) 

Dialin information:
-------------------

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THAILAND                0018001562039684
UNITED KINGDOM          08005280546
UNITED STATES           8008671147

Access Code:  7375405


Attendance Record:
------------------
        Legend:
                x = attended
                - = missed
                r = represented
                . = not yet a member
                v = valid voter (2 out of last 3 or 3/4 overall)
                n = not a valid voter
                t = chair eligible to vote only to make or break a tie

New PAR, attendance re-initialized on 2006-08-22:

vv[xxx-xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx-xx] Doron Bustan (Intel)
vv[xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx-x] Eduard Cerny (Synopsys)     
nn[----x-xxx---------x-x-xxx-x---x] Surrendra Dudani (Synopsys)
vv[xxxxxxx-xx-xxxxx-xxx-xxx-------] Yaniv Fais (Freescale)
tt[xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] John Havlicek (Freescale - Chair)
vv[xxxxxxxxxxxxxrxxxxxxxxxxxxx-xxx] Dmitry Korchemny (Intel - Co-Chair)
vn[x-x--xx--xxxxx----------xx-xxxx] Manisha Kulshrestha (Mentor Graphics)
nn[------------xxxxx-------x-xx-x-] Jiang Long (Mentor Graphics)
nn[----x--xxx.....................] Joseph Lu (Altera)
nn[x..............................] Johan Martensson (Jasper)
nn[---------x--x-xx--xx-xxxxxxx-x-] Hillel Miller (Freescale)
vv[xxxxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxx] Lisa Piper (Cadence)
vv[xxx-x-xxxxx-x..................] Erik Seligman (Intel)
nn[-----xxxx-----xxxx-xx----------] Tej Singh (Mentor Graphics)
vv[xxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Bassam Tabbara (Synopsys)
vv[xxxxx-xxxxxxxxxx...............] Tom Thatcher (Sun Microsystems)
   |------------------------------- attendance on 2007-08-21
 |--------------------------------- voting eligibility on 2007-08-21
|---------------------------------- new voting eligibility


Agenda:
-------

- Reminder of IEEE patent policy.
- Meeting schedule up to 15 OCT 2008 feature freeze.
- Results from champions.
  . Items approved:
    * 1460 Allow actions within assume property statement
    * 1674 Context value functions
    * 1677 Add $changed sampled value function
    * 1730 Allow literal sequence and property actual arguments
    * 1734 Incomplete fix to Annex F in 0805.
    * 1735 Incomplete fixes from 0928
    * 1361 need a way to control execution of action blocks
  . Items with friendly amendments:
    * 1550 $sampled function definition
    * 1567 22.9: in Syntax 22-7, should be no semicolon
    * 1722 there exists bind inconsistencies between the BNF and the text
  . Items sent down:
    * 1591 17.7.3, 22.9: $past syntax not precise
    * 1704 need to specify behavior of attached subroutine on empty seq match
    * 1601 new keyword for untyped formal arguments
    * 1648 Default reset for assertions (default disable)
    * 1729 Introduce immediate assume and cover statements
    * 1768 need to define how to interpret whether the argument to cover is a
  . Items rejected:
    * 1466 shortcuts for delay and consecutive repetition
  . Items to be closed:
    * 1543 Meaningless sentence in 17.15 and Annex H
  . Items requiring more time to review:
    * 1681 Introduce global clocking
- Results of e-mail ballot on 1549
- 1668:  Local var initializers [JH]
- 1728:  Let proposal [EC, DK]
- 1932:  LTL operators [DK, DB]
- 1757:  accept_on, reject_on
- 1900:  Checkers [ES]
- 1682:  Future value functions [DK]
- 1756:  Control of assertions in initial blocks [EC]
- 1758:  Boolean operators ->, <-> [EC]


Notes:
------

- Reminder of IEEE patent policy.
- Meeting schedule up to 15 OCT 2008 feature freeze.
  . Decided to go to weekly meetings and to keep the same 2 hour slot.
- Results from champions.

  . Items approved:
    * 1460 Allow actions within assume property statement
    * 1674 Context value functions
    * 1677 Add $changed sampled value function
    * 1730 Allow literal sequence and property actual arguments
    * 1734 Incomplete fix to Annex F in 0805.
    * 1735 Incomplete fixes from 0928
    * 1361 need a way to control execution of action blocks

  Neil Korpusik joined the meeting to help clarify the feedback from
  the champions.

  The champions will attempt to review and approve revised proposals for
  the items below that are completed and compiled by 6 a.m. PDT on 2007-08-24.
  We discussed how to meet this schedule.  We decided that all e-mail 
  ballots for this effort must complete by 6 a.m. CDT on 2007-08-24 and 
  be called no later than 6 a.m. CDT on 2007-08-23.  The chair will call
  e-mail ballots for revised proposals as soon as the proposals are ready
  and posted on mantis.  Each e-mail ballot will be allowed to run until the
  deadline of 6 a.m. CDT on 2007-08-24.

  Owners of the proposals or of associated action items need to converge 
  on the revisions with enough time for the chair to be able to call for
  an e-mail ballot.  They also need to send e-mail to indicate that the 
  proposal is ready to be voted.

  . Items with friendly amendments:

    * 1550 $sampled function definition [EC]
      Friendly amendments:
        - Add a description of the deprecated syntax to Annex C.2
          The deprecated syntax should only appear in Annex C.2 and not in 
          sub-clause 16.8.3
        - Remove the following sentences from 16.8.3
          "The function $sampled does not use a clocking event, although one 
           can be optionally provided. The optional clocking event is ignored, 
           and its use is deprecated"
        - Change the syntax for $sampled in 19.11, 16.8.3 such that the
          argument clocking_event is not shown.
      - EC will update the proposal.

    * 1567 22.9: in Syntax 22-7, should be no semicolon [JH]
      Friendly amendments:
        Change the proposal to make it more obvious what is being changed. 
        - The s that is being removed should have a strikethrough and be in red
        - The ; being removed should have a strikethrough on it
      Voice vote:  7y/0n/0a.  Chair was not eligible to vote.

    * 1722 there exists bind inconsistencies between the BNF and the text [LP]
      Friendly ammendments: (correct the spelling and capitalization problems)
        - spelling error - 22.10 (auxiliary has only on 'l')
          more than one occurrence (at the end)
        - Item 1) if the... capitalize the if
           identifier is spelled wrong (3 times)
      - LP will revise the proposal.

  . Items sent back:

    * 1591 17.7.3, 22.9: $past syntax not precise [DK]
      Updates required:    
        Has similar issues as those flagged for 1550.
        - Update the part about $sampled (see feedback for mantis 1550)
        - Rename or remove old proposals.

      - JH will send an email to DK about the suggested changes.  DK will then 
        revise.
  
    * 1704 need to specify behavior of attached subroutine on empty seq match [LP]
      Three changes need to be made:
        - "must not admit" should be "shall not admit"
        - Get rid of commas in the next to last sentence.
        - When used on a sequence that admits an empty match an error 
          message shall be issued. [The sv-ac should determine the 
          appropriate wording for this error case.]
      - LP will take care of all three of these.  The last item means that the
        champions think it is unclear that the proposal is defining the 
        attachment of a match item to a sequence that admits empty match to
        be an error.  LP will also address this.

    * 1601 new keyword for untyped formal arguments [LP]
      Resolution from Champions:
        Send 1601 back to the sv-ac to use 'untyped' in place
        of 'context' and request a justification for the proposal.
      - DK  will send JH the argument in favor of the proposal; JH
        will edit it and send it on to LP.
      - LP will change the keyword from "context" to "untyped".

    * 1648 Default reset for assertions (default disable) [EC]
      Set of issues:
        - The bnf shouldn't be in the text.
        - 3rd paragraph under syntax box, part about "...on the position of...",
          doesn't need to say it.
          "The scope of the... " isn't clear.
        -  There are issues in the other 2 paragraphs as well.
        -  First paragraph - should be reworded
             "One can specify..." -->
             "A default disabling condition may be..."

      Resolution from Champions:        
         Send 1648 back to svac with this set of 3 concerns.

      - EC will try to revise this.  There was mail from Francoise.
        . Maybe an example with nested declarations will help.

    * 1729 Introduce immediate assume and cover statements [EC]
      The following set of changes need to be made to this proposal:
        - 16-1 syntax was changed since this mantis item was updated
               action_block ::= 
                     else <--- is now null
        - The () in the syntax box should be in red
        - On bottom of page 2 - example - assume and cover need bolding
        - Add a note to the editor in the proposal to not change the 
          action_block syntax. 
        - Syntax A.6.10
          immediate_assert_statement ::=    <--- use a different name here
          - Should be more generic since it has 3 choices
            Dave suggests immediate_assertion_statement.
               immediate_assert --> immediate_assert_statement
               immediate_assume --> immediate_assume_statement
               immediate_cover --> immediate_cover_statement
            Compare this to the syntax in A.2.10
        - Syntax box on page 2 - has different set of blue items vs. A.6.10
        - 16.3 , 2nd paragraph is new -- needs to be blue
               , 4th paragraph assert should be bold
        - Paragraph after 16-1 - should be bold for assert. 2nd paragraph
          Stu thinks this sentence might be ok.
        - make bolding consistent for this whole section
        - there seem to be some grammar errors as well.

      . JH will look at the BNF and try to suggest a resolution that is aligned
        with the syntax for concurrent assertions.  Ed will try to address the other 
        comments.

    * 1768 need to define how to interpret whether the argument to cover is a
      property or sequence [LP]
      - missing a friendly amendment?
      - has changes dependent on 1599

      Send mantis item 1768 back to the svac so that they can add the missing 
      friendly amendment

      [Discussion after the vote - some people dropped off the line already]
      It looks like the amendment is actually there.

      Resolution from Champions:  
        Can the sv-ac check to make sure that the friendly ammendment is there?

      . LP & JH will look back for the friendly amendments.
      . BT & JH will review for consistency with the 1599 changes.

  . Items rejected:
    * 1466 shortcuts for delay and consecutive repetition [LP]

    - NK:  Can try to convince WG at meeting on August 30.
    - Can revise with only two shortcuts.  LP will do this.
    - DB will create text for references to argue in favor of this proposal.

  . Items to be closed:
    * 1543 Meaningless sentence in 17.15 and Annex H [DB]

    - JH will close.

  . Items requiring more time to review:
    * 1681 Introduce global clocking [DK]
    - DK will try to address the feedback from the champions and determine whether
      additions need to be made to the proposal.

We ended the meeting here.  The compiled feedback for 1549 is below.
We will continue e-mail discussion of the proposals below and call ordinary
week long e-mail ballots for items that become ready to vote.

- Results of e-mail ballot on 1549
  Friendly amendments:

  - [YF] page 4 : "`define my_delay 2;" -  should not have semicolon at the end
    of line.

  - [YF] sequence declarations page 5 : "sequence event_arg_example ( event arg)"
    should have semicolon at end of line (in two places in that page)

  - [DK]  Page 3.  Change 

         "Argument passing is done by substitution (refer to the
         section on formal semantics Refer to [Note to Editor - I
         think this is F.2.3]".

    to

         "Argument passing is done by substitution (refer to [Note to
         Editor - I think this is F.2.3])".

    JH:  We need to come up with a unique label for the as-yet-unnamed subclause
    and use it everywhere.

  - [DK] Page 4 & 6. The fonts of the keywords sequence and property need to b
    fixed

  - [DK] Page 4. I don't think it is a good style to use `define directive in
    this example. When we have let statement, it can be used here. For now I
    would use literal constants.

  - [BT] 1) Actual arguments that consist of expressions are checked at
    compile time for compatibility with the types of the corresponding
    formal arguments.
    >>> What level of compatibility (see 6.22) ? Say *cast compatibility* to
        be clear (even if 2nd sentence talks of cast).

  - [BT] 2) Parentheses are always implicit for passing expressions as arguments.
    >>> rewrite to: "When passing ..... parentheses ..."

  - [BT] 3) Argument passing is done by substitution (refer to the
    section on formal semantics Refer to [Note to Editor - I think
    this is F.2.3] Parentheses are always implicit for passing
    expressions as arguments.
    >>> formal semantics write-up strikes out substitution in favor of
        *rewriting*. Use "cast-compatible rewriting/replace" instead

  - [BT] 5) The supported data types for sequence formal arguments are
    the types that are allowed for operands in assertion expressions
    (see 16.5.1) and the keyword context. ** The supported data types
    for sequence formal arguments are the types that are allowed for
    operands in assertion expressions (see **
    >>> repetition ....

  - [BT] 6) 16.5.1). In addition, sequence expressions may be typed
    using the sequence type and the event type. A formal type of
    sequence requires an actual argument that is either a Boolean
    expression or a sequence expression. An actual arg of type
    property would cause an error when the formal type is sequence.
    ....  A formal argument of property type can accept a Boolean
    expression, sequence expression, or property expression actual
    argument. The rules for passing arguments to properties is the
    same as those for sequences. Refer to 16.7.1.
    >>> I suggest we say something to the effect of cast compatible as a
        general statement that we can use for other things in future.

  - [BT] 7) if e is such an expression, then $var(e) behaves like e in
    all respects except that operations allowed on a reference to or
    instance of a named item declared with the same type as e are also
    allowed on $var(e). ** In particular, any operation that is
    allowed on a reference to a variable declared with the same type
    as e is allowed on $var(e). **
    >>> repetition
    >>> do we want to mention type compatibility here or somewhere else in
        formal semantics ?
 
  - [BT] 7) $var because operations that are legal on a reference to
    a formal argument within the body of a declaration might no longer
    be legal when an actual argument expression is sub- stituted for
    the reference to the formal argument
    >>> use "replaced (with appropriate casting)" or use "rewritten"

  - [BT] 8) then the part select operation cannot be applied when e is
    substituted for v because ((logic[0:3])'({a,b}))[1:2] is illegal.
    >>> use "replaced (with appropriate casting)" or use "rewritten"

  Issues:

  - [YF] passing $ to shortint

  - [many] Does the BNF allow $ as an actual argument to a sequence or property 
    instance?

  - [BT] 4) Also arguments to these sequences shall be static;
    automatic variables used as sequence arguments shall result in an
    error.
    >>> which sequences ? Sentence needs re-wording
    >>> rewrite to: Arguments .... . Automatic ...
    >>> *** Do we really want to have this restriction ? Why ? This is
        extreme. If you mean the operand types we have then fine, this is listed
        there strike this out -- in its current form it covers waaaay more than
        the operand type restrictions in 16.5.1.
 

- 1668:  Local var initializers [JH]
- 1728:  Let proposal [EC, DK]
- 1932:  LTL operators [DK, DB]
- 1757:  accept_on, reject_on
- 1900:  Checkers [ES]
- 1682:  Future value functions [DK]
- 1756:  Control of assertions in initial blocks [EC]
- 1758:  Boolean operators ->, <-> [EC]


Next meeting: 
-------------

2007-08-28 at 16:00 UTC (11:00 CDT), 1.5 hour slot.
Received on Tue Aug 21 11:55:38 2007

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