RE: [sv-ac] call to vote on Mantis 1674

From: Eduard Cerny <Eduard.Cerny_at_.....>
Date: Mon Apr 30 2007 - 09:40:12 PDT
Could we add another argument to distinguish it?
ed 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Korchemny, Dmitry [mailto:dmitry.korchemny@intel.com] 
> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 12:14 PM
> To: Eduard Cerny; Rich, Dave; sv-ac@eda-stds.org
> Subject: RE: [sv-ac] call to vote on Mantis 1674
> 
> Hi Ed, Dave,
> 
> But how we define $rising_i, $changing_i, etc. in this case?
> 
> Thanks,
> Dmitry
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-sv-ac@server.eda.org 
> [mailto:owner-sv-ac@server.eda.org] On
> Behalf Of Eduard Cerny
> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 3:22 PM
> To: Rich, Dave; Eduard Cerny; sv-ac@server.eda-stds.org
> Subject: RE: [sv-ac] call to vote on Mantis 1674
> 
> Hello Rich,
> 
> good point even if the solution is not obvious. Still, 
> perhaps something
> could be done w/o breaking backward compatibility in the case of 1682:
> 
> For example, $past is currently defined as:
> 
> $past( expression1 [, number_of_ticks] [, expression2] [,
> clocking_event])
> 
> If we allow number_of_ticks to take values in [-1:$] then -1 could
> indicate next clock tick, i.e., future value (negative past 
> == future).
> To indicate that global clock should be used, use the name of 
> the global
> clocking declaration for the clocking event. The problem with this is
> that in the case the future value should be used, the specification
> becomes a bit long because both the ticks and the clock must be
> specified. On the other hand, compared to the regular use of 
> $past there
> will be relatively few such uses and in more specialized situations. 
> 
> Dmitry, would something like this be acceptable?
> 
> ed
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Rich, Dave [mailto:Dave_Rich@mentor.com] 
> > Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 10:42 AM
> > To: Eduard Cerny; sv-ac@eda-stds.org
> > Subject: RE: [sv-ac] call to vote on Mantis 1674
> > 
> > If you look at the VPI object model, there's a regular way of moving
> > from one object to any other object through a limited set of 
> > operations.
> > Then from any object, there's a regular way of querying or setting
> > information about that object. With the PLI, there were 
> separate tasks
> > to do individual operations. For example, there was one 
> > function to get
> > the value of a signal, another to get the value of a task 
> > argument, and
> > another to get the value of a parameter.
> > 
> > I'm not suggesting that the solution has to be 
> introspection, but that
> > you take a global look at all the features that need to be 
> > added and see
> > if there are better language based solutions. It looks like you are
> > trying to get access to inferred signals from within a property and
> > inferred signals from the context where a property has been
> > instantiated. Then I see the three different kinds of 
> signals that are
> > being inferenced. What if you decide you need to know the global
> > defaults as well? Then you have to add three more system functions.
> > 
> > Mantis 1682 is probably a poster example of the problem I 
> see. A year
> > from now, who outside the sv-ac is going to remember the difference
> > between $rose, $rose_i, $rising_i (I don't remember if $posedge was
> > added elsewhere). Come up with a single definition of
> > rising/falling/changing, then come up with definitions for 
> > past, current
> > and future, then try to come up with syntax that blends the 
> > two concepts
> > together without creating unique identifiers with each combination.
> > 
> > Dave
> >  
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Eduard Cerny [mailto:Eduard.Cerny@synopsys.com]
> > > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 1:39 PM
> > > To: Rich, Dave; sv-ac@eda-stds.org
> > > Subject: RE: [sv-ac] call to vote on Mantis 1674
> > > 
> > > Hi Dave,
> > > 
> > > is it not, though, that the user must have means of 
> specifying where
> > the
> > > inference should be made and where not? How would 
> introspection help
> > > that?
> > > 
> > > Thanks,
> > > ed
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: owner-sv-ac@eda.org [mailto:owner-sv-ac@eda.org] On
> > > > Behalf Of Rich, Dave
> > > > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 4:30 PM
> > > > To: sv-ac@eda-stds.org
> > > > Subject: RE: [sv-ac] call to vote on Mantis 1674
> > > >
> > > > Ed,
> > > >
> > > > My problem with this proposal is that it needs a more general
> > language
> > > > based way to solving the problem. Synthesis tools will 
> > certainly be
> > > > interesting in utilizing inferred clocks, resets and enables.
> > > >
> > > > The sv-ac has been adding what looks like system functions
> > > > all over the
> > > > place in a relatively ad-hoc manner, and the list is getting
> > > > relatively
> > > > large. This same thing that happened to the PLI 1.0 as 
> > the number of
> > > > routines grew. They replaced it with a more OO-like VPI when
> > > > it started
> > > > to become unmanageable.
> > > >
> > > > My suggestion is to start looking at other languages with
> > > > introspection
> > > > (Python) and coming up with more regular ways querying context
> > > > information.
> > > >
> > > > Dave
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: owner-sv-ac@server.eda.org
> > [mailto:owner-sv-ac@server.eda.org]
> > > > On
> > > > > Behalf Of Eduard Cerny
> > > > > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 10:44 AM
> > > > > To: Kulshrestha, Manisha; john.havlicek@freescale.com;
> > > > sv-ac@server.eda-
> > > > > stds.org
> > > > > Subject: RE: [sv-ac] call to vote on Mantis 1674
> > > > >
> > > > > I think that there is a real need to be able t specify such
> > default
> > > > > arguments, otherwsie properties are not reusable in different
> > > > contexts.
> > > > > Therefore, would you have a counterproposal? Or what 
> you feel is
> > not
> > > > > intuitive?
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > > ed
> > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: owner-sv-ac@eda.org [mailto:owner-sv-ac@eda.org] On
> > > > > > Behalf Of Kulshrestha, Manisha
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 1:36 PM
> > > > > > To: john.havlicek@freescale.com; sv-ac@eda-stds.org
> > > > > > Subject: RE: [sv-ac] call to vote on Mantis 1674
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I vote no on 1674. I am not convinced that the 
> current way to
> > > > replace
> > > > > > default arguments with $inferred.. is the right way to do
> > > > this. This
> > > > > > makes it unnecessarily complicated and it is not very 
> > intuitive.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks.
> > > > > > Manisha
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: owner-sv-ac@server.eda.org
> > > > > > [mailto:owner-sv-ac@server.eda.org] On
> > > > > > Behalf Of John Havlicek
> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 4:20 AM
> > > > > > To: sv-ac@server.eda-stds.org
> > > > > > Subject: [sv-ac] call to vote on Mantis 1674
> > > > > >
> > > > > > All:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is the call to vote on the proposal for Mantis 1674.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As discussed in our meeting, this vote runs longer than
> > > > > > the usual week because we have so many e-mail ballots
> > > > > > running concurrently.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Please vote if you are eligible.  See the details below.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > J.H.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ballot on Mantis 1674
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - Called on 2007-04-18, final ballots due by 23:59 PDT on
> > > > 2007-04-30.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >  v[xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx-xx] Doron Bustan (Freescale)
> > > > > >  v[xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx-x] Eduard Cerny (Synopsys)
> > > > > >  n[---------x-x-xxx-x---x] Surrendra Dudani (Synopsys)
> > > > > >  v[x-xxxxx-xxx-xxx-------] Yaniv Fais (Freescale)
> > > > > >  t[xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] John Havlicek (Freescale - Chair)
> > > > > >  v[xxxxrxxxxxxxxxxxxx-xxx] Dmitry Korchemny (Intel 
> - Co-Chair)
> > > > > >  v[xxxxx----------xx-xxxx] Manisha Kulshrestha 
> > (Mentor Graphics)
> > > > > >  n[---xxxxx-------x-xx-x-] Jiang Long (Mentor Graphics)
> > > > > >  n[x.....................] Joseph Lu (Altera)
> > > > > >  n[x--x-xx--xx-xxxxxxx-x-] Hillel Miller (Freescale)
> > > > > >  v[xxx-xxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxx] Lisa Piper (Cadence)
> > > > > >  v[xx-x..................] Erik Seligman (Intel)
> > > > > >  n[-----xxxx-xx----------] Tej Singh (Mentor Graphics)
> > > > > >  v[xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Bassam Tabbara (Synopsys)
> > > > > >  v[xxxxxxx...............] Tom Thatcher (Sun Microsystems)
> > > > > >    |---------------------- attendance on 2007-04-17
> > > > > >  |------------------------ voting eligibility for 
> this ballot
> > > > > > |------------------------- email ballots received
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 	Legend:
> > > > > > 		x = attended
> > > > > > 		- = missed
> > > > > > 		r = represented
> > > > > > 		. = not yet a member
> > > > > > 		v = valid voter (2 out of last 3)
> > > > > > 		n = not valid voter
> > > > > >                 t = chair eligible to vote only to 
> > make or break
> > a
> > > > tie
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
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Received on Mon Apr 30 09:40:36 2007

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