All: My notes from today's meeting are attached. As usual, please let me know if corrections are required. J.H. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. Minutes of IEEE P1800 SV-AC meeting #2007-07 Written by: John Havlicek Date: 2007-03-27 Time: 16:00 UTC (11:00 CDT) Dialin information: ------------------- Country Number AUSTRALIA 1800009128 AUSTRIA 0800291873 BELGIUM 080077334 CANADA 8008671147 CHINA TELECOM (CT) 108001400732 CHINA NETCOM (CNC) 108007140759 DENMARK 80703159 FINLAND 0800770233 FRANCE 0800941695 GERMANY 08001014519 GREECE 0080016122039738 HONG KONG 800933578 HUNGARY 0680017180 INDIA 0008001006032 INDONESIA 008800105607 IRELAND 1800944116 ISRAEL 1809459738 ITALY 800782388 JAPAN 00531160427 LUXEMBOURG 80023985 MALAYSIA 1800808386 MONACO 80093186 NETHERLANDS 08002658223 NEW ZEALAND 0800443736 NORWAY 80057409 POLAND 008001114672 PORTUGAL 800819106 RUSSIA 81080022801012 SINGAPORE 8001011470 SOUTH AFRICA 0800992835 SOUTH KOREA 00308140540 SPAIN 900967020 SWEDEN 0201400559 SWITZERLAND 0800563054 TAIWAN 00801126585 THAILAND 0018001562039684 UNITED KINGDOM 08005280546 UNITED STATES 8008671147 Access Code: 7375405 Attendance Record: ------------------ Legend: x = attended - = missed r = represented . = not yet a member v = valid voter (2 out of last 3) n = not a valid voter t = chair eligible to vote only to make or break a tie New PAR, attendance re-initialized on 2006-08-22: vv[xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx-xx] Doron Bustan (Freescale) vv[xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx-x] Eduard Cerny (Synopsys) nn[--------x-x-xxx-x---x] Surrendra Dudani (Synopsys) vv[-xxxxx-xxx-xxx-------] Yaniv Fais (Freescale) tt[xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] John Havlicek (Freescale - Chair) vv[xxxrxxxxxxxxxxxxx-xxx] Dmitry Korchemny (Intel - Co-Chair) vv[xxxx----------xx-xxxx] Manisha Kulshrestha (Mentor Graphics) nv[--xxxxx-------x-xx-x-] Jiang Long (Mentor Graphics) nn[--x-xx--xx-xxxxxxx-x-] Hillel Miller (Freescale) vv[xx-xxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxx] Lisa Piper (Cadence) vn[x-x..................] Erik Seligman (Intel) nn[----xxxx-xx----------] Tej Singh (Mentor Graphics) vv[xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Bassam Tabbara (Synopsys) vv[xxxxxx...............] Tom Thatcher (Sun Microsystems) |--------------------- attendance on 2007-03-27 |----------------------- voting eligibility on 2007-03-27 |------------------------ new voting eligibility Agenda: ------- - Reminder of IEEE patent policy. - 1361: Control exec of action blocks [MK] . Ready to vote? - 1737: Incomplete fixes from 1381 [EC] . Ballot ongoing, no negative votes, completes 2007-03-28. - 1466: Shortcuts for ## and * [LP] . Failed e-mail ballot (technically, does not complete until 2007-03-29). . What next? - 1728: Let [EC], motion. . Should the rules for email ballots on proposals apply? - 1674: Context value functions [EC] . YF reviewer - 1681: Global clocking [EC] . DB reviewer. - 1682: Future value functions [EC] . DB reviewer. - New mantis item 1763. - 1729: Immediate assume, cover [EC] . LP reviewer. - 1730: Literal sequence and property arguments [EC] . DB will review. - 1731: Sampled value functions with arbitrary clocks [EC] . JH, MK, DB will review. - 1599: API and VPI changes for 0805 [BT] . Ready to move to SV-CC? - 1734: Incomplete fix to Annex E in 0805 [JH] . DB reviewer. - 1641: Severity specification for error msgs [MK] . LP, BT reviewers. - 1668: Local var initializers [JH] . EC, DK reviewers. - 1648: Default disable [EC] . Status? Notes: ------ - Reminder of IEEE patent policy. - 1361: Control exec of action blocks [MK] . Ready to vote? . JH will call for an email vote. - 1737: Incomplete fixes from 1381 [EC] . Ballot ongoing, no negative votes, completes 2007-03-28. - 1466: Shortcuts for ## and * [LP] . Failed e-mail ballot (technically, does not complete until 2007-03-29). . What next? . Discussion of various objections. . No one said that removing [?] would change their position on the proposal. . JH asked LP about whether "[*]" is parsed as a token in PSL. . We'll continue to discuss by email and plan a voice vote in the next meeting. - 1728: Let [EC], motion. . Should the rules for email ballots on proposals apply? . We think Karen Pieper said we can use email ballot rules for the motion. JH will call for email vote. . MK: Is there discussion of types for sequences and properties? How does this impact let? How do types work? . DK: The mechanism for passing arguments should be the same as for sequences and properties. - 1674: Context value functions [EC] . YF reviewer . JH to call for an email vote on this. - 1681: Global clocking [EC] . DB reviewer. . EC will post latest version, DB, DK will re-review. . After the review, we will notify SV-EC. -1682: Future value functions [EC] . DB reviewer. . DB: We haven't reached an agreement yet. . EC: This is an efficiency for formal tools to use the prime variables. . EC: In simulation, if we have good coding style, we can read the next value as the current value in the observed region. . EC: Another alternative is to use the sampled value at the next global clock tick. . EC: Reporting is also a problem if you delay evaluation. . DB: We are losing the good properties of clock sampling and abstraction. . DK: Implementing a next value based on clock sampling looks difficult. . EC: You can only use the feature if there is a global clock. . DK: In formal, the global clock always ticks. . DB: It is not good to get the global clock in the nextvalue without having a marker in the syntax. If the user has to write the global clock explicitly, that is o.k. . JH: Can the syntax in the proposal be pushed in a way that helps address DB's concern about leaving the realm of the sampled? . TT: The proposal needs to show the value in both simulation and formal, and it needs to be efficiently implementable. . DK: It is efficiently implementable -- we have an implementation. . JH: Let's try to change the names somewhat to make it clearer that these are not governed by the context clock. - New mantis item 1763. . All expressing an opinion thought that the assertion control tasks in the language today should not affect ended, matched, triggered. . ES(?): Is there a motivating example? . BT: If you had vpicontrol and turned it off, that should turn off a sequence, though. There is more controllability through the VPI. . BT: 27.31 talks about controlling assertions. Assertion covers sequence instances, etc. . EC: The interesting case is when the sequence is used as an event control. It could be useful to add sequences, etc. as targets of the existing assertion control tasks. . BT: This will bring alignment between the VPI control and the control from within the language. . JH to move mantis to "assigned to EC" and modify the mantis item to capture the discussion. JH will ask BT and EC to review. - 1729: Immediate assume, cover [EC] . LP reviewer. . EC needs time to respond to the feedback from LP. . BT: We will need to update the VPI material if these are added. A bugnote to this effect is appropriate. . EC: We may need to add non-vacuous counter if syntactic sugar for implication is allowed. . DK: We could use a mantis item to remember the dependency on the currently non-existent feature. DK to add mantis item. - 1730: Literal sequence and property arguments [EC] . DB reviewer. . DB: What about local variables in the expressions? . EC: Currently, you would get undefined symbols. Let's leave it this way. . BT: Passing expressions makes it harder to provide error messages. Forcing to encapsulate in a named sequence, e.g. is a better tradeoff. Also there is the question of standardizing the way the reference is made. . JH will call for an email vote. We did not get to the following: - 1731: Sampled value functions with arbitrary clocks [EC] . JH, MK, DB will review. - 1599: API and VPI changes for 0805 [BT] . Ready to move to SV-CC? - 1734: Incomplete fix to Annex E in 0805 [JH] . DB reviewer. - 1641: Severity specification for error msgs [MK] . LP, BT reviewers. - 1668: Local var initializers [JH] . EC, DK reviewers. - 1648: Default disable [EC] . Status? Next meeting: ------------- 2007-04-17 at 16:00 UTC (11:00 CDT), 2 hour slot.Received on Tue Mar 27 12:30:45 2007
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