RE: [sv-ac] reminder to vote on mantis 1550

Hi, would it be enough to change the text so that it is the value
assigned in the declaration of the variable or in the absence the
default value of type? I view the assigned values in declarations and
the default values as the values that the variable has from -oo till
0^-.

ed 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-sv-ac@eda.org [mailto:owner-sv-ac@eda.org] On 
> Behalf Of Miller Hillel-R53776
> Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 9:24 AM
> To: Havlicek John-r8aaau; sv-ac@eda-stds.org
> Subject: RE: [sv-ac] reminder to vote on mantis 1550
> 
> John,
> 
> I am not sure we should make such an inconsistency it sounds 
> troubling.
> 
> However, the reason why static variable declarartion 
> assignments cannot
> be used, is that it cannot be used by an outer module reference. If I
> want to influence the initial value of a $ function that is 
> dependent on
> a module's reg, how would this be done. Would I need to 
> rewrite the code
> with the declaration assignment?
> 
> Maybe we need an additional construct for initializing the $sampled
> value of a variable at the same time as assignment declaration.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> Hillel Miller>
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-sv-ac@eda.org [mailto:owner-sv-ac@eda.org] On 
> Behalf Of John
> Havlicek
> Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 3:42 AM
> To: sv-ac@eda-stds.org
> Subject: Re: [sv-ac] reminder to vote on mantis 1550
> 
> Hillel & Ed:
> 
> I think there are several things going on here.
> 
> First, based on 9.3.1, I think that the declaration assignments for
> static variables execute as part of 
> 
>    initialize the values of all nets and variables
> 
> Then the initialization events are scheduled into the time 0 slot.
> This does not mean that any assignments from an initial block are
> performed yet.  
> 
> Then, assuming that there is some event, we execute the time 0 slot.
> 
> Then the preponed region of the time 0 slot is executed.
> 
> Thus, the declaration assignments for static variables will influence
> the preponed values in the time 0 slot.
> 
> If $sampled refers to a static variable with declaration assignment,
> then I think that in the time 0 slot the value from the declaration
> assignment should be used rather than the default initial 
> value for the
> type of the variable.  
> 
> The statement in the proposal that $sampled returns the default intial
> value (presumably of the type) of its argument in the time 0 
> slot could
> therefore be inconsistent with the statement that $sampled returns the
> preponed value of its argument in the current time slot, and should
> probably either be removed or clarified.
> 
> I think that according to 9.3.1, assignments in an initial 
> block will be
> scheduled for the active region of the time 0 slot.  These assignments
> do not, I believe, affect the preponed values in the time 0 
> slot.  If we
> consider $sampled always to return the preponed value, then initial
> block assignments will not affect $sampled in the time 0 slot.
> 
> Hillel, are you asking for the defintion of $sampled to be 
> influenced by
> initial block assignments in the time 0 slot?  If so, then the
> definition of $sampled needs to be changed to distinguish the time 0
> slot from all the other time slots.  I would like to see a strong
> rationale for such an inconsistency, one that explains, e.g., 
> why static
> variables with declaration assignments cannot be used.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> John H.
> 
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> > Thread-Topic: [sv-ac] reminder to vote on mantis 1550
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> > Acc/JcA24JDBTV1VQc2QjprTXfKfWwAlgkfgAAIJ6XAAA6aw4AAEm8jwAAAfAlA=
> > From: "Miller Hillel-R53776" <r53776@freescale.com>
> > 
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> > 
> > Still what is wrong with the proposal to use the value after 
> > initialization at time 0? Where does this break consistency?
> > 
> > ________________________________
> > 
> > From: Eduard Cerny [mailto:Eduard.Cerny@synopsys.com]=20
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 8:27 PM
> > To: Miller Hillel-R53776; Eduard Cerny; Havlicek John-r8aaau; 
> > sv-ac@eda-stds.org
> > Subject: RE: [sv-ac] reminder to vote on mantis 1550
> > 
> > 
> > Hi Hillel,
> > =20
> > apart from the uesr initialization, what is really the problem with 
> > the current definition? Yes, it can happen when there is a clocking 
> > event at time 0, or if you have $past with longer number of 
> clocks to 
> > go back, etc.
> > =20
> > Best regards,
> > ed
> > =20
> > PS the forced initialization can be a feature of a tool, 
> not the LRM.
> > =20
> > 
> > 
> > ________________________________
> > 
> > 	From: Miller Hillel-R53776 [mailto:r53776@freescale.com]=20
> > 	Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 1:14 PM
> > 	To: Eduard Cerny; Havlicek John-r8aaau; sv-ac@eda-stds.org
> > 	Subject: RE: [sv-ac] reminder to vote on mantis 1550
> > =09
> > =09
> > 	Ed,
> > 	=20
> > 	What $ functions use $sampled values which are to be before time
> 0?
> > 	=20
> > 	Does this happen when there is a "clocking event" at time
> zero?=20
> > 	=20
> > 	Why can't we take the route of using the values after
> initialization 
> > as the $sampled value in the first preponed region at time 0? What 
> > does this break?
> > 	=20
> > 	There also needs to be away to allow the user to control the 
> > initialization of the $functions at time Zero. This could 
> be needed if
> 
> > a counter example is produced by a formal tool that needs to be 
> > replayed in simulation. If the $sampled at the first 
> preponed region 
> > is from the time 0 initilization stage then this is doable.
> > 	=20
> > 	Thanks
> > 	Hillel
> > 	=20
> > 	=20
> > 	=20
> > ________________________________
> > 
> > 	From: Eduard Cerny [mailto:Eduard.Cerny@synopsys.com]=20
> > 	Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 4:31 PM
> > 	To: Miller Hillel-R53776; Havlicek John-r8aaau;
> sv-ac@eda-stds.org
> > 	Subject: RE: [sv-ac] reminder to vote on mantis 1550
> > =09
> > =09
> > 	Hello Hillel,
> > 	But the functions use $sampled values which are to be before
> time 0. 
> > Hence the initialization to the default value of the type. 
> What else 
> > would you suggest?ed
> > 	=20
> > 
> > 
> > ________________________________
> > 
> > 		From: owner-sv-ac@eda.org [mailto:owner-sv-ac@eda.org]
> On Behalf Of 
> > Miller Hillel-R53776
> > 		Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 8:53 AM
> > 		To: Havlicek John-r8aaau; sv-ac@eda-stds.org
> > 		Subject: RE: [sv-ac] reminder to vote on mantis 1550
> > 	=09
> > 	=09
> > 
> > 		Hi,
> > 
> > 		I vote no even though I am not elligible. The reason is
> that it is 
> > not clear what the intialized values are of the $ functions.
> > 
> > 		The current schedular code shows an initialization
> process, before 
> > going into the first preponed area (see below). This means that the 
> > initial value of an expression is determined by its 
> initilization at 
> > time slot 0 and not by its default type value as specified in the 
> > proposal.
> > 
> > 		execute_simulation {
> > 
> > 		T =3D 0;
> > 
> > 		initialize the values of all nets and variables;
> > 
> > 		schedule all initialization events into time 0 slot;
> > 
> > 		while (some time slot is nonempty) {
> > 
> > 		move to the next future nonempty time slot and set T;=20
> > 
> > 		execute_time_slot (T);
> > 
> > 		}
> > 
> > 		}
> > 
> > 		Hillel Miller>
> > 
> > 
> 
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