Meeting 62 Minutes

Brett Lammers: Special thanks to Yaron Kashai and Darren Galpin for capuring the notes for this meeting in my absence

Teleconference, Monday, May 24, 2010, 1600 UTC; 9:00 am Pacific Daylight Time

A quorum of 6 out of 8 voting members present. 5 non-voting members were also present.
Attendance and voter status indicated on the on-line roster .

Attendees

• Voting members
  • Darren Galpin
  • Serrie Chapman
  • Matan Vax
  • Henry Von Bank
  • Yaron Kashai
  • Joe Hupcey

• Non-voting members
  • Michael T McNamara
  • Mike Bartely
  • Amy Witherow
  • Iraklis Diamantidis
  • Kishore Karnane

1. Call to order meeting 62 on May 24th at 9:03 am PDT (16:03 UTC)

2. Approval of April 19th meeting 61 minutes

• Solicit motion to approve the meeting 61 minutes
• Mike B. motions to approve meeting 61 minutes
• Yaron K. seconded
• Meeting 61 Minutes approved

3. Status update

• Action Items

  • 1 Dec 08 Joe H. - will identify a driver customer for each language addition on the table and ask them to join the eWG and contribute both labor and, if necessary, funding. - Pending

    • May 24 Update
      • No update
    • April 19 Update
      • Identified some additional contacts in these areas (Named constraints, Defined as computed, Real data types) Waiting for follow-up
    • March 8 Update
      • Yaron and Brett soliciting response from AE's and customers specific to the ports subject
      • Joe and Brett to follow-up week of 3/8 on possibly addressing some of the other topics in the same fashion
    • February 8 Update
      • no new progress to report
    • December 14 Update
      • Identified several customers that are active with the Real Number capability (India, Europe, and US)
      • Next step to contact local AE's for these customers. Will be following up first thing in the new year
    • November 9 Update:
      • Darren did contact a colleague, Pim Palmen, who is willing to get involved. Contact details sent to Matan
      • Joe did follow up with some internal Cadence contacts who provided some customers that Joe is going to start following up on
    • Oct 12 Update:
      • Joe has not made any progress on identifying customer drivers
      • Joe to provide a report on reflector upon contacting list of individuals
    • Sept 14 Update:
      • Joe: Was able to set aside some real focused time and was able to find contacts for each feature
      • Joe: Next step is start contacting the people found directly or through appropriate AEs
      • Joe: Interesting note that the decision to set aside the "temporal coverage" feature seemed to track as no issues found in the support database related to that feature
      • Andy: Missing results on temporal coverage not surprising. Intel using in house solution.
      • Andy: Might be worth double checking with Ziv and/or Intel on the "temporal coverage" feature.
      • Matan: Had a short chat on temporal coverage with Shlomi (Specman R&D) who seemed to be in favor of the feature
      • Andy: Appreciate Shlomi's input. However, need to identify customers to drive this feature.
      • Darren: One difference for temporal coverage is that it is a fresh development and therefore requires more work
      • Andy: That is correct

    • Aug 10 Update:
      Joe - Very limited progress. Database can be searched but it is difficult to really develop a pattern and draw conclusions. Will attempt again when back from vacation
      Joe - Another tack might be to contact members that have been past members but have dropped out attendance wise. Will follow up after roster has been updated
      Darren - The on-line roster has been updated to better reflect active or interested members
      Andy - Have we thought about a blanket email to all AE's?
      Joe - Yes that is a thought. Waiting until after the vacation "season" ends.

    • 13 July: Little progress to date, and it is rather challenging as it isn't easy to extract the info - it will take more time. Is there a list on-line of those who used to participate? If there is, we need to look at it and purge it - we need to look at the roster and purge it of those who are not interested, as some are not doing verification any more.
      Darren: I'll check the roster against the mailing list.
      Brett: Perhaps check why some people took themselves off the list? [Note: two did, Carl Walker from Cisco, and Alan Ahlschlager from Cadence].
      Serrie: Perhaps only check against people who have ever attended a meeting?
      Brett: Agreed
      Joe H: Agreed
      Darren: The problem is that I do not have that information, as only the results of the past four meeting was kept for voting privileges.
      Joe H: Perhaps Andy has the information?

    • 6 June: No progress to date.

    • 11 May: Brett and Joe now have access to the support database so they can search for relevant customers for each features. They will be working with their AEs on this. Brett has not yet figured how to extract the needed information but it will be labor intensive.

    • 13 Apr: Joe asked Alan Ahlschlager if he and Brett Lammers can access the support database.

    • 6 Mar: Joe is coordinating this with CDNS Support, correlating enhancement requests with P1647-2010 features. Expected to be a somewhat slow process as service requests are not currently categorized by language construct.

• Task Forces

  • Constraints (lead: Mark Strickland)

    • Named checks

    • Named constraints

    • Type constraints

    • May 24 Update - No update

    • April 19 Update

      • Mark Strickland is catching back up after not having attended the meetings for a while.

      • One outstanding issue from Matan needs to be addressed

    • March 8 Update

      • Mark not present to give update but one is really needed

    • February 8 Update

      • Darren: Mark did review and close a number of Mantis issues

    • Dec 14 Update

      • No Update from Mark
      • Waiting for Mark to review the updates that Darren posted

    • Nov 9 Update

      • Darren did go through what was submitted and released a newly updated draft.

      • Mark needs to review updates and close any issues as appropriate

    • Oct 12 Update - No update

    • Sept 14 Update - No update

    • Aug 10 Update - No update

    • *Previous Status* -
      Two documents have been reviewed and issues submitted into the bug tracking system for the first document. Mike has sent some issues via e-mail, and they need to be entered.
      Mike: Do you want me to enter them?
      Mark: Enter them - we can discuss them afterward

  • Macros (lead: Matan Vax)

    • Define-as-computed

• • • May 24 Update - No update
    • April 19 Update
      • Not much to report
      • New draft with Define as Computed included. Has initial feedback from Darren
      • Have not heard back from Cristian
      • Will submit to editor ASAP
    • March 8 Update
      • Not much feedback received.
      • Still hoping for feedback from Cristian Amitroaie
      • Matan will submit draft to editor to continue on formatting etc
    • February 8 Update
      • Finished merged doc. Out for review (Look up mantis issue to find uploaded Doc)
    • Dec 14 Update -
      • Midway through merging donated document
      • Looking to have first draft by the end of the week
      • Will post doc for further review
    • Nov 9 Update -
      • No real progress to report
    • Oct 12 Update -
      • (Post meeting email update from Matan as Matan was not at the meeting)
      • Matan: I do have updates on my AIs from last meeting, but I haven't managed to feed them into the wiki yet. I'll try to do that next.
    • Sept 14 Update -
      • Matan: Was able to do a read through of what was donated as well as the existing material. Need to do some significant merging.
    • Aug 10 Update - No Update

    • *Previous Status*
      No real progress
      Anticipating assistance of Cristian Amitroaie

  • Ports (lead: Yaron Kashai)

    • Interface ports

    • TLM ports as in SystemC

• • • May 24 Update - No update
    • April 19 Update
      • Have been trying to find additional reviewers but have not had much luck
      • Will go ahead and submit to editor but also continue to look for reviewers
      • No outstanding issues but would be nice to have real user input
    • March 8 Update
      • Sent out query to Cadence AE's
      • Brett to follow-up with some specific AE's and customer contacts
      • Draft is fairly solid and ready for formatting.
      • Only real remaining issue is to make sure it addresses any customer issues
    • February 8 Update
      • no update
      • Still need to contact users
    • Dec 14 Update -
      • First draft is on the wikki
      • Next steps to find users or potential users- Brett has suggested some and will followup in Jan
    • Nov 9 Update -
      • Yaron and Brett discussed most of the issues and resolved/agreed on most of them
      • Yaron got an update from Specman RnD on multiple port connections and other topics
      • Ready to update doc with review agreement between Brett and Yaron
    • Oct 12 Update -
      • Material posted on wiki
      • Some reviews in, good comments and fixes needed
      • Looking for up-to-date material, current material is not whole story.
      • Yaron is trying to find out what that's about
      • Overall not very far from wrapping this up
    • Sept 14 Update -
      • Yaron: First Draft is posted on the Wiki. Mostly done but does need some further review and fine tuning
      • Brett: I did a quick review and need to post/send my comments for Yaron
    • Aug 10 Update - No real progress
      • No real customer interest
      • Relatively easy feature that should be straightforward to include in the LRM
      • Yaron's Proposal: add page to Wiki in which working drafts can be posted and reviewed
      • Darren - Seems reasonable. You (Yaron) should have access to do so
      • Yaron - Will make a top level "Work in Progress" link containing the various drafts that are in progress

    • Previous Status
      Read through the document
      Will post the text on the Wiki

  • Types (lead: Mike Bartley)

    • Parameterized types

    • Real data type

    • May 24 Update - No update
    • April 19 Update
      • Draft sent to editor.
      • Need to follow-up on open issues that now have feedback from Matan
      • Mark will gather Matan's feedback and send to editor
    • March 8 Update
      • Only a couple of remaining Mantis issues that Matan was going to follow-up on
        • Matan did not yet have time
        • Matan did suggest a reference to an IEE standard for the first "similarity issue
        • Matan still needs to follow up on second "distribution" related issue
      • Need to decide what to do about coverage of real numbers
        • Are there any language related limitations/constraints?
          • Matan thinks that there are only tool and "conceptual" level limitations
          • Matan/Mike/Serrie to follow-up offline
    • February 8 Update
      • Review of general doc done
      • Looking at 2 additions sent last week
        • Seem to be very tool oriented right now. Need to be turned into more User oriented docs
        • Matan: We should not capture tool limitations in the doc. Need to focus on semantic rules
          • May want to specify limitations based on use cases (i.e. rule out some semantics for real type constraints)
      • Still need to address 2 mantis issues (2874 and 2881)
        • Matan will do more investigation
    • Dec 14 Update -
      • No update from Mike
      • Still waiting for missing docs mentioned below
      • Matan is going to follow-up on this again
      • Matan to follow up Mike's questions (email Nov 2) regarding issues 2881 and 2874

    • Nov 9 Update -

      • Darren made updates to the doc. Mike needs to go through and close issue

      • Some documentation missing from Cadence (only part of current docs was donated by Cadence)

        • Need to have docs on how real types effect other areas (Constraint solving etc)

        • Joe or Matan need to follow-up with Amy (Cadence docs) to deliver more sections

        • Missing sections in current delivery:17.6 and 17.7 Real number generation and Real number coverage.

    • Oct 12 Update -

      • Not much to report, all current documents are in place

    • Sept 14 Update -

      • Darren for Mike: All issues have been posted in the issues tracker

      • Aug 10 Update -

      • Have not yet put issues into Mantis.

      • Plan to put working draft of document on Wiki for further comments

      • Henry has responded and has agreed our (Mike and Serrie) comments and has no additional comments. We are now just waiting for one of us to have the time to add the comments into Mantis.

      • Previous Status
        Mike and Serrie have reviewed the documents, and have e-mailed comments to Henry. To be put into Mantis.

  • Encryption (lead: Stylianos)

    • May 24 Update - No update
    • April 19 Update
      • Updated draft with comments from reviewers
      • Since no language constructs exist in standard this secion will only refer to high level process
      • Draft is out/available for review.
    • March 8 Update
      • Iraklis submitted a first draft to Darren
      • Working on feedback that includes some formating issues etc
    • February 8 Update
      • Iraklis taking over for now.
      • Received docs from Stylianos
      • Unsure if Stylianos will stay as lead or not. Need to hear from Stylianos
    • Dec 14 Update - No update
      • Stylianos has taken a new job at Synopsis. Darren to follow-up to see if Stylianos will still taking on this lead role
        
    • Nov 9 Update - No update
    • Nov 9 Update - No update
    • Oct 12 Update -
      • Still working on recommendations, will post on wiki when something is available
    • Sept 14 Update -
      • Stylianos: Did find some good information in the eRM documentation. Will start working on some "recommendation" documentation that covers what should be encrypted etc
    • Aug 10 Update - No Update
    • Previous Status
      Stylianos will tackle elaborating the encryption specification of e.

• Open issues

  • Darren: There are a number of open issues that maybe should be saved for Sept meeting which hopefully will have a better quorum

    • May 24 update
      • multiple type constrains (Issue 2781)
        • Matan: there is a new document associated with the issue - need to read and review. OK to close the issue after review.
      • real coverage and generation (Issue 2981)
        • Mike B: List of restrictions for the real type. There shouldn't be LRM level restrictions for coverage and generation of real types. Leave these for implementors to specify.
        • Matan would like to look at this off line.
      • coverage API (Issue 3070)
        • Darren: several terms that are used in coverage definition and never defined. Amy could generate a draft based on data provided by Matan.
      • procedural binding of e ports (Issue 2899)
        • Yaron: this is included in the draft, issue should be closed.
      • constraint semantics (Issue 2864)
        • Matan: this is too big a project for the timeframe, push out for next version
        • Darren: requires a vote by the working group
        • Mike B. moves to vote
        • Matan seconds
        • Discussion:
          • Matan - would be better off leveraging Cadence donated documents
          • No objections or abstentions, motion passes
      • type constraints on struct fields (Issue 2779)
        • Some correspondence between Matan, Mark and Amy.
        • Need to decide whether to include some of the code examples
        • Yaron: note that only syntax examples are acceptable for IEEE
        • Matan: will look into examples and decide
      • Enhance fatal() (Issue 2761)
        • Yaron: two proposals on table to avoid backward compatibility issue. Either add a new method or add a parameter to existing one.
        • Matan - Andy's proposal to add a return value as a first argument can be resolved without introducing backward compatibility issue. This is the preferred resolution.
        • Matan to propose definition to be added to the draft
      • encryption (Issue 2767)
        • Iraklis: two issues - one regarding the encryption key itself and another about the technical details as related to IP protection. The LRM should really only focus on the APIs and de-emphaisze the vendor specific implementation details.
        • Will come up with a new version of the IP protection document, will send to Matan for review

• • • April 19 Update
      • Darren is looking to close all issues by next meeting
      • Need to have all issues resolved by June timeframe to focus on editing and document finalization
    • March 8th update
      • Darren and Brett reviewed the open items and here is the updated list. (Look below or in Mantis for additional details on the items themselves
        • Issue 2763 - semicolons as separators
          • Closed
        • Issue 2759 - rf_named_entity, rf_enum, rf_struct, rf_event do not fully list their methods
          • Still Open: Matan is the owner
        • Issue 2758 - Addition: dut_errorf() and dut_error() {action block}
          • Still Open: Matan and/or Brett need to review current draft changes by Darren and close issue
        • Issue 2765 - LRM Sect 1.1: Scope
          • Closed
        • Issue 2833 - no_collect not an item option for transition or cross cover
          • Still Open: Matan needs to review new draft
        • Issue 2789 - Default parameter values for methods
          • Still Open: Matan is owner
        • Issue 2764 - Default parameter values for methods
          • Still Open: Assigned to Mark Strickland but maybe Matan needs to pick it up to maintain progress.
        • New pending issue not yet in Mantis-Named check issue raised by Matan via email
          • Darren asked Matan to submit Mantis issue
    • February 8 Update
      • No specific update here except for the discussion under the task force sections above
    • Dec 14 Update -
      
      • No update here except for the discussion under the types task force

    • Nov 9 Update -

      • Darren added issue 2903 for shortened when subtype syntax to the issue tracker

        • Matan volunteers to handle this.

        • Darren will assign the issue to Matan

    • Matan has updated some issues below. Darren will follow-up and update the status on those issues as appropriate

    • Oct 12 Update -

      • Issue 2765 - LRM Sect 1.1: Scope
        • PAR matches what is in document.
    • Sept 14 Update -
      • Issue 2763 - semicolons as separators
        • LRM specifically allows "empty clause"
        • Resolution: Close as "no issue"
      • Issue 2759 - rf_named_entity, rf_enum, rf_struct, rf_event do not fully list their methods
        • Resolution: Matan will look into this issue
      • Issue 2758 - Addition: dut_errorf() and dut_error() {action block}
        • Darren:Is there exiting Cadence documentation for DUT_errorf?
        • Darren: There is code out there using these constructs but they are not documented
        • Darren: Probably just an oversight but we do need to capture it.
        • Matan: Did not find in current Specman docs either. Should be easy to capture as it is the same as other string format operations. It is hard to imagine any thing different
        • Darren: Can we confirm there is no difference?
        • Yaron??: Concern about the semantics of the dut_error action (i.e. definition of an action inside an expression)
        • Brett: Isn't this action block the same idea as the message statement with an action?
        • Matan: Yes but message does have some other complications.
        • Darren: The original concern really is that it exists in the language but is not described in the LRM
        • Resolution: Matan and Brett will look into the code to confirm both variants and get back to the group possibly with a proposal on new documentation
      • Issue 2765 - LRM Sect 1.1: Scope
        • Resolution: Andy to compare 2010 PAR to what we currently have and make sure they are identical
      • Issue 2833 - no_collect not an item option for transition or cross cover
        • Matan: Don't have an answer off hand. Probably need to consult coverage team
        • Andy: Don't see why no_collect should not be an option for transition or crosses
        • Resolution: Matan will discuss with Specman coverage team and report back to the group
      • Issue 2789 - Default parameter values for methods
        • Resolution: Matan still needs to update the issue in the tracker with the discussion from the reflector
        • Nov 9 update - Matan did post a document to the Wiki on this subject

• Editor Slot

  • May 24 Update

    • waiting for Mantis issues to be resolved and produce a new draft.

  • April 19 Update

    • Need to talk to someone about using Mantis (Darren to follow-up after meeting)

  • March 8 Update

    • Have not had time to make much progress since the last meeting but should be starting back up soon

  • February 8 Update

    • Should code examples be removed?
      • Yes examples longer then a small syntactic example should be removed. This was the practice in the previous releases
    • Should references to Specman Docs be removed?
      • Yes non public references should be removed. This was the practice in the previous releases

4. Other business

• Any other business?

  • Mail a message to ieee1647@edaNOSPAM.org (the general email reflector) if you were not recorded in these minutes

5. Call for essential patents

• The IEEE-SA updated the patent policy effective April 2008

• The details are available in updated slide set at http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.pdf. (See "Patent related" from the IEEE 1647 home page, "Slides About IEEE Patent Policy").

• If you believe that any patent claims are essential patent claims, please inform the working group. Review the posted slides for more information.

6. Next meeting

• June 21th at 9 am PST (1600 UTC)

7. Adjourn

• Serrie C. motioned

• Mike B. seconded

• Motion approved

• Meeting adjourned at 9:33 am PDT (16:33 UTC)

-- BrettLammers - 2010-06-01